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Regarding BA layoffs

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Regarding BA layoffs

Old 19th Oct 2001, 21:55
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Question Regarding BA layoffs

With the forthcoming BA layoffs, how many pilots are affected? And is BALPA going to continue to allow AACS and the proposed GSS to fly BA cargo runs? It would appear that BA pilots should be doing it and only excess capacity would be flown by AACS/GSS.
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Old 19th Oct 2001, 23:10
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Red face

Sadly, Blackbeard, BA management regard this as a golden opportunity to carve-up the airline. Much of our work is being given away to CitiExpress and other franchise operations.

Even though many pilots at BA are paid less than pilots at Ryanair and Easy, the cost of continuing to run a massive civil service type bureaucracy, cabin crew who earn more than pilots and gigantic Yen debts, means that BA will be hard pushed to ever make a profit. Also, we upset every travel agent in the UK when we axed commissions. Have you ever tried to pick up a BA Holidays brochure? Impossible!

I agree that we should be doing much more to stop our work being given away but a cosy union/ company relationship mean't that we never pushed for a legally binding scope clause. There are too many pussycats amongst BA flight crew who still believe that a gentleman's agreement is sufficient and who only get angry when they can't do 4 premium trips every month. Complacency and "I'm alright Jack" are the mottos of the old guard amongst BA flight crew. The good news is that times and attitudes are changing. There will be a fight but I suspect that it will be too late.
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Old 23rd Oct 2001, 14:11
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Hot Wings,
I feel that every word you posted is true.
What a shame for the industry to find ourselves where we are today.

ZZZZZzzzzzzz.......
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Old 23rd Oct 2001, 16:03
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Hotwings.
Have you read the letter from Capt. XXXX in the latest issue of the Log? The subject matter is interesting if only for the fact that this Captain with 30yrs seniority at BA can only just afford his BALPA subscriptions and he wants more premium lines because 'the new boys' are taking them!
I am not BA by the way.

[ 23 October 2001: Message edited by: Airbrake ]

[ 23 October 2001: Message edited by: Airbrake ]
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Old 23rd Oct 2001, 17:17
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Airbrake,

I'm not so sure that it's a good idea mentioning people by name on this board.

However I did'nt know whether to laugh or cry at his predicament, but the biggest suprise was that The Log printed it in the first place. Surely the BA BALPA reps should have dealt with his query directly.

As a BALPA member with far more pressing problems since last month (I assume he wrote the letter prior to the 11th sept) than said chaps allowance dilemma, I would have thought there would be far more topical or interesting letters to publish, particuly for the odd BALPA member thats not in BA. At the risk of appearing sensative a lot of us are now facing redundancy or demotion, I would hope that BALPA could use a little more nous.
 
Old 23rd Oct 2001, 21:21
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Wooof.
Point taken. I have removed his name. However, he did write his letter to a widely circulated publication and he is named at the end of the article. Name removed to avoid undue stress!
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Old 23rd Oct 2001, 23:37
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The guy you are referring to is getting a bit of a grilling on the BA forum. He is obviously from the same planet as the Guvnor! Please don't assume all BA chaps/chapesses are of the same mindset!!
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Old 24th Oct 2001, 00:41
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I quite agree, not all of us 30 year serving long haul types in BA are w*****s, just enough to **** people off!
Yes we should fly freight with our callsign on!
Rapidly aging crmbly!
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Old 24th Oct 2001, 02:59
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Question

I was not aware that any pilot redundancies had been announced. DEPs were still signing on the dotted line up until last week, which suggests that either everything is ticketyboo in BA, or the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing.
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Old 24th Oct 2001, 04:00
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Arrow

Hot Wings - where do you get this big idea that cabin crew earn more than pilots at BA?

Cabin crew start on 7,800-9,000 , plus taxable allowances adding maybe another 7-8000.

Please tell us which pilots are on a basic of 9,000???

Maybe if you got the oldest CSD in the company, with the newest FO you might be near the mark , but in general they earn less than the pilots.

Indeed,everyone of the new entrants I have come across in the last year who have tried to get a mortgage have been declined as their earnings would give them a mortgage of on average 44,000

On the other hand (& maybe quite rightly so,)
most new FO's seem to have a brand new sporty car & a recently acquired property.
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Old 24th Oct 2001, 04:43
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Interesting. I don't know many FOs with brand new sporty cars (unless they're of independent means). How about these statistics then:

New CEP FO basic salary 21K, of which 3K is reclaimed by BA, hence 18K. Short haul CSD lowest pay point 28K.

New CEP FO training- two years on 30 per week (circa 1500 pa)
New cabin crew training- 6 weeks, on basic of 7000 pa.

New FO responsibility 30M+ aircraft.
New CSD responsiblity- duty free trolley, on-board performance assessment forms, running to flight deck with problems.

[ 24 October 2001: Message edited by: Carnage Matey! ]
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Old 24th Oct 2001, 05:34
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Sorry off topic a bit,

Airbrake's post has just reminded me to cancel my subscription to BALPA, having read this months LOG and many others, and in particular the letter he was referring to, the sooner that letter writer disappears from aviation the better. I guess that letter writer is thankfully the last of the dying breed that refers to an FO as 'Boy'.

As a young (mid 20's) Captain on a twin turboprop, BALPA offers nothing to me.

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Old 24th Oct 2001, 11:55
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CARNAGE - FO responsibility! not in any company I've ever flown in. All the blame rest with the Commander. No FO has ever been charge with something the Commander wasn't.
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Old 24th Oct 2001, 14:17
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Anti - Ice .. Sorry you are simply mistaken.

Carnage Matey ...Thanks for pointing out the facts.
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Old 24th Oct 2001, 15:16
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But F/Os get Flying Hour Rate and CSDs do not
How about a take home pay comparison?
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Old 24th Oct 2001, 15:48
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...just heard on Virgin Radio UK that Lord Marshall of BA "hinted" today (whatever that means) that there may well be more job cuts to be announced soon at BA.

Bloody marvellous (but unfortunately not surprising)

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Old 24th Oct 2001, 21:25
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OK short haul FO will do approx 600hrs flying per year, almost exclusively in the lower bracket of FHR at about 6.40 per hour. Thats about 3800 per year, so your looking at about 21800 for the FO. CSD is still on 28K
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Old 25th Oct 2001, 02:01
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Thank you Carnage Matey! I just couldn't be bothered to explain!

Hot from the BA forum is news that the 15% pay cut taken by our illustrious leaders has actually been in exchange for share options.

Which brings me to my next point: every year when we get the results from the Employee Opinion Survey, they show that the majority of staff at BA have no faith in the ability, leadership or direction of our board and senior management. The standard response is that communication needs to be improved ie. they know what they are doing but we are just too dumb to understand. The reality though, is that we do know and we do understand - its just that we have no trust in their actions, which considering my previous point, appears to be entirely justified.

Don't forget, Eddington already ruined two airlines and now he is lining up his third!
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Old 25th Oct 2001, 02:05
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Angry

please dont compare apples with oranges, bottom CSD shorthaul (ie new as can be) could be new contract so considerably less. as for FO with no authority, last time i looked, they were second in command after capt, and i have seen a few times a FO save a Capt bacon for various things. also i believe mr boeing and mrs airbus make the a/c for TWO pilots, yes the capt has OVERALL authority, but i believe they work better as a team with both having valid points.
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Old 25th Oct 2001, 02:41
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Get a grip: who cares if a CSD who has probably been in the airline for a while anyway earns a little more than a new FO. If you don't think they are worth it, you nor BA can't do a thing about it anyway, as they just like pilots are heavily unionised. Why is it so wrong to recognise somebody's experience in people management and safety-related matters in the cabin, or have those who feel so badly about this just got a chip on their shoulders?

Maybe if a little more respect was given to some of them, then flight-deck/cabin relations could be improved.
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