A request to To the self appointed 'Guard' (121.5) Police
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Diddley Dee,
You were in on the earlier thread, too, no?
I was waiting for the complaints about "weekend warriors" and practice calls to start.
Déjà vu all over again, what ?
You were in on the earlier thread, too, no?
I was waiting for the complaints about "weekend warriors" and practice calls to start.
Déjà vu all over again, what ?
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Every single flight I take, there are multiple "You're on guard" calls I hear, even though I never heard the one being the reason for the police call. The range circle you have when transmitting is never taken into account by the policemen... There actually might be several transmitted for a single accidental call to maintenance on 121,5.
Why not let ATC watch over guard freq, it's them who are responsible for it.
All you guard police men are doing more harm then good with your calls...
Nic
Why not let ATC watch over guard freq, it's them who are responsible for it.
All you guard police men are doing more harm then good with your calls...
Nic
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Papa fumes une Pipe
Talking about 'ze french'....its quite typical the number 2 box on 121.5 gets cluttered over French Airspace with morons who think they are funny and whistle for an hour or two...(very typical 
) Most often the reason to have the box switched off (although temporarely)
Sometimes I would like to shove a baguette in those funny people, especially when you try to do your profession (and no, its not MY 'baguette', but they can choose which side they want it)
BTW: Can I vote here for the international ENGLISH ATC-discipline??!
Does my head in
) Most often the reason to have the box switched off (although temporarely)Sometimes I would like to shove a baguette in those funny people, especially when you try to do your profession (and no, its not MY 'baguette', but they can choose which side they want it)
BTW: Can I vote here for the international ENGLISH ATC-discipline??!
Does my head in
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4HOLEPOLAR
As a controller, if some one calls me unsure of their position I would class that as an emergency, it is a call from someone is looking for help.
you may need help in the future , whatever your emergency might be
As a controller, if some one calls me unsure of their position I would class that as an emergency, it is a call from someone is looking for help.
you may need help in the future , whatever your emergency might be
Plumbum Pendular
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It is standard training for a PPL that if you are lost and can not resolve your position that you contact 121.5 (well it was when I used to instruct all those years ago and used to ask DnD for a practice PAN with all my students).
This is standard and I think should remain so.
I found it very irritating the other night, couple for Germans or Dutch (I am not a good linguist) were chatting for ages on 121.5. I know that it wasn't an emergency as they were blowing raspberries at each other.
Just out of interest why is it called "Guard"?
This is standard and I think should remain so.
I found it very irritating the other night, couple for Germans or Dutch (I am not a good linguist) were chatting for ages on 121.5. I know that it wasn't an emergency as they were blowing raspberries at each other.
Just out of interest why is it called "Guard"?
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The only guard police who irritate me, are the ones who must spend the whole sector with 121.5 selected (for tx) on their radio control panel, and who must have a finger permanently poised over the PTT. How else can they make their "on guard" transmission within a millisecond of the unfortunate pilot transmitting (usually by mistake) on 121.5? Get a life guys.
fmgc, "guard" is I believe the military (NATO?) term for the emergency frequency.
fmgc, "guard" is I believe the military (NATO?) term for the emergency frequency.
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why is it called "Guard"?
Maritime Safety: Eliminate deaths, injuries, and property damage associated with maritime transportation, fishing, and recreational boating. The Coast Guard's motto is Semper Paratus—(Always Ready), and the service is always ready to respond to calls for help at sea.
Taking a punt, would it date to the maritime days and mariners referring to monitoring "Guard"? ie Coast Guard.
123.45 insn't for chitchat, though. Is it?
IIRC it is also an ASR frequency in parts of europe and is only a chitchat freq over the pond etc.
I stand (sit) to be corrected.
IIRC it is also an ASR frequency in parts of europe and is only a chitchat freq over the pond etc.
I stand (sit) to be corrected.
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May I also complain about the Germans who at 5 UTC have to check ALL their frequencies on 121.5?
Remember back in the day shooting tacan to ils with the guard freqs selected on at (high) volume because our IPs wanted it so. There goes the concentration
Remember back in the day shooting tacan to ils with the guard freqs selected on at (high) volume because our IPs wanted it so. There goes the concentration
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I've never so heard so much crap spoken on 121.5 as in the UK at the moment - I'm not past there often but have heard numerous weekend warriors bleating that they're "unsure of our position" - trollip! Learn to nav or buy a hundred buck GPS. 121.5 is for emergencies - keep it that way.
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I was pulled up the other day in a millisecond by some tosser who followed my transmission with a "your on guard". The error of my ways notwithstanding i politley pointed out that i had in fact wrongly transmitted my first call on vhf after oceanic on 12345 instead of the atc freq.
I emphasised that I was not in fact on guard but on 12345 and advised him in my best anglo saxon of the "general manner in which i wished him to proceed" off :thanking him for his inter ference at the same time....what a ****
I emphasised that I was not in fact on guard but on 12345 and advised him in my best anglo saxon of the "general manner in which i wished him to proceed" off :thanking him for his inter ference at the same time....what a ****
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Worst I've heard...
"G-XXXX student pilot, solo navex, unsure of position, request position and heading to XXXX"
millisecond later
"you're on guard!"
"G-XXXX, london centre do you read?"
"you're on guard!"
Then had to speak to ATC and lost what happened next.
It has been shown that early use of 121.5 for position and for training fixes has saved people's lives, so I am well up for people practicing fixes (when its quiet) and for knowing that the absolutely excellent service that D and D offer is there. I have stood and watched two emergencies being dealt with in D and D and it was very instructive.
The CAA reckon 75% of inappropriate 121.5 chat comes form commercial ops, so its not the little chaps we ought to be worried about.
"G-XXXX student pilot, solo navex, unsure of position, request position and heading to XXXX"
millisecond later
"you're on guard!"
"G-XXXX, london centre do you read?"
"you're on guard!"
Then had to speak to ATC and lost what happened next.
It has been shown that early use of 121.5 for position and for training fixes has saved people's lives, so I am well up for people practicing fixes (when its quiet) and for knowing that the absolutely excellent service that D and D offer is there. I have stood and watched two emergencies being dealt with in D and D and it was very instructive.
The CAA reckon 75% of inappropriate 121.5 chat comes form commercial ops, so its not the little chaps we ought to be worried about.
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PLOC (Prolonged Loss of Communication) incidents are an issue at our Company. We had a recent one in which guard was switched off for reasons mentioned below and which is at the centre of the the problem of which you speak. Our Chief Pilot requires us to monitor 121.500mhz and it just pisses some of us off to the back teeth Diddley Dee. I just want you to understand the pressures we are under on the other side of the fence
We as Pilots are caught between a rock and a hard place.
On one hand we have useless Spanish controllers, for a good example, who will quite happily let us blast through FIR boundaries and out of Radio Range which ensues in a fighter interception. This could quite possibly be fatal to certain peoples career path if working for the wrong company as we feel we are. We don't have Selcal or Sat Comms if we do find ourselves in this situation. No second chances in other words.
On the other hand 121.500 has now become utterly unusable over Europe due to the constant volume of spurious traffic on it. A colleague recently wrote what appears below on a company website stating his frustration, which I agree with 100%.
The situation stinks. These morons blocking the frequencies having casual chats are now not only interfering with other Airlines monitoring guard, the secondary effect is that they are now inducing people to join them. I mean that too, it boils the blood listening to these morons such that it turns respectable Pilots into "Guard Police".
When is somebody going to crack down on this misuse and take ownership for stamping it out?
We as Pilots are caught between a rock and a hard place.
On one hand we have useless Spanish controllers, for a good example, who will quite happily let us blast through FIR boundaries and out of Radio Range which ensues in a fighter interception. This could quite possibly be fatal to certain peoples career path if working for the wrong company as we feel we are. We don't have Selcal or Sat Comms if we do find ourselves in this situation. No second chances in other words.
On the other hand 121.500 has now become utterly unusable over Europe due to the constant volume of spurious traffic on it. A colleague recently wrote what appears below on a company website stating his frustration, which I agree with 100%.
The situation stinks. These morons blocking the frequencies having casual chats are now not only interfering with other Airlines monitoring guard, the secondary effect is that they are now inducing people to join them. I mean that too, it boils the blood listening to these morons such that it turns respectable Pilots into "Guard Police".
When is somebody going to crack down on this misuse and take ownership for stamping it out?
I read this FCI this morning and am feeling a bit lost about it.
These incidents are happening more and more and not just at XXXair. We have been instructed to monitor 121.500mhz which is, of course, best practice and something I have certainly been taught since before I went solo for the first time on my PPL course. The problem is that there is just never ending chatter on the frequency. Take a flight from somewhere in England to somewhere south of the Alps:
1. 2 Practice Pan calls in UK, which they are quite legally entitled to make in the UK. I had to have an ATC instruction repeated as they conflicted.
2. France. Multiple calls. Should we rename it "121.500mhz- The Air France alternate company Freq" ? Plenty of "Bonjour Francois, ca va?" "Bien Merci, 123.450"
3. Germany. A very persistent and thorough ground controller at a regional airport, making multiple checks on all freqs: " Ya! Dis is xxxx ground, VHF ground test, hhhowwwwt"
4. Switzerland. "Hi Moritz/Franz/Hanz, Jim/Bob/jack here, are you on gaurd? "Yeah, go ahead" "Hi, just wondering if you were working today?" "Yeah just 4 sectors, blah blah blah" I kid you not!
5. Italy. More of the same as in No.4. Chat, Chat, Chat.
6. Generally.ELT/Distress Beacons being tested all day everyday. On, off, on, off, on, off. What ever happened to testing at the top of the hour? Spanish Pilots same thing as French Pilots as per point 2. Call your mates on 121.500mhz have a quick chat, then when you get shouted at, transfer over to 123.450mhz. The brigade of morons calling Operations. "Frankfurt Operations, Delta 3411" 2/3 calls in response "YOU ARE ON GAURD!!" Oblivious, Deltaman carries on "Yeah, uhmmm, off Block time 22, Fuel...."
All this set against a backdrop of possibly the most congested frequencies in the World. So what happens? We just can't put up with the noise and hassle and guard gets deselected. Then people get a little tired and inattentive and they get a fighter escort after 38 mins out of communication. I can see how it happens.
So, 121.500mhz is not a solid option. Marking the FIR borders on the PLOG. It seems to work and I have caught a few Spanish controllers trying to let me enter someone else's FIR without a handover. The problem is that sometime their are multiple FIR boundaries located within a few minutes of each other. Maastricht and Switzerland are examples. Added to the this you can receive a handover up to 100 miles before a border so you still can be confused as to whether you are with the right sector.
Solutions? HF Selcal would seem like an ideal solution. A chime and a flashing light if it all goes wrong. Very expensive though, it would cost many millions of Euro to fit to the fleet. It would also be very handy to contact the company instead of having to radio ahead to a base when you are overhead in the cruise.
Any thoughts?
These incidents are happening more and more and not just at XXXair. We have been instructed to monitor 121.500mhz which is, of course, best practice and something I have certainly been taught since before I went solo for the first time on my PPL course. The problem is that there is just never ending chatter on the frequency. Take a flight from somewhere in England to somewhere south of the Alps:
1. 2 Practice Pan calls in UK, which they are quite legally entitled to make in the UK. I had to have an ATC instruction repeated as they conflicted.
2. France. Multiple calls. Should we rename it "121.500mhz- The Air France alternate company Freq" ? Plenty of "Bonjour Francois, ca va?" "Bien Merci, 123.450"
3. Germany. A very persistent and thorough ground controller at a regional airport, making multiple checks on all freqs: " Ya! Dis is xxxx ground, VHF ground test, hhhowwwwt"
4. Switzerland. "Hi Moritz/Franz/Hanz, Jim/Bob/jack here, are you on gaurd? "Yeah, go ahead" "Hi, just wondering if you were working today?" "Yeah just 4 sectors, blah blah blah" I kid you not!
5. Italy. More of the same as in No.4. Chat, Chat, Chat.
6. Generally.ELT/Distress Beacons being tested all day everyday. On, off, on, off, on, off. What ever happened to testing at the top of the hour? Spanish Pilots same thing as French Pilots as per point 2. Call your mates on 121.500mhz have a quick chat, then when you get shouted at, transfer over to 123.450mhz. The brigade of morons calling Operations. "Frankfurt Operations, Delta 3411" 2/3 calls in response "YOU ARE ON GAURD!!" Oblivious, Deltaman carries on "Yeah, uhmmm, off Block time 22, Fuel...."
All this set against a backdrop of possibly the most congested frequencies in the World. So what happens? We just can't put up with the noise and hassle and guard gets deselected. Then people get a little tired and inattentive and they get a fighter escort after 38 mins out of communication. I can see how it happens.
So, 121.500mhz is not a solid option. Marking the FIR borders on the PLOG. It seems to work and I have caught a few Spanish controllers trying to let me enter someone else's FIR without a handover. The problem is that sometime their are multiple FIR boundaries located within a few minutes of each other. Maastricht and Switzerland are examples. Added to the this you can receive a handover up to 100 miles before a border so you still can be confused as to whether you are with the right sector.
Solutions? HF Selcal would seem like an ideal solution. A chime and a flashing light if it all goes wrong. Very expensive though, it would cost many millions of Euro to fit to the fleet. It would also be very handy to contact the company instead of having to radio ahead to a base when you are overhead in the cruise.
Any thoughts?
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Guard police do my nut!!! What amazes me is freaks that get on the r.t. with 'you're on guard!' when sometimes they are refering to someone who isn't even speaking the same language as them. I can only imagine how many times they have interfered with something, that maybe is meant to be taking place on 121.5. I wish they would shut up and find a new hobby, because the 'guard police' are without doubt, the most irritating voices on the air. Seriously though, please, shut up!!
Bellwether&cloudbuster
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Is it not time that radios have the facility to announce into your own headset (and not on frequency) as you press transmit on 121.5 either a distinctive tone or voice saying "121.5 transmit" or similar. You could sit in the cockpit looking down at the frequency selector and feel a chump, but no one would know 
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British?
Is it a British 'thing' to police 121,5?
No matter where you fly in Europe, you go it's always some nasal Oxford accented voice telling someone that "You're on guaaaard!"
No matter where you fly in Europe, you go it's always some nasal Oxford accented voice telling someone that "You're on guaaaard!"
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I must be missing something here...
Here is a thread about misuse - grossly unprofessional misuse - of 121.5 by tossers calling each other for a chat, whistling, blowing raspberries etc and yet all the slamming and lambasting is being directed at the poor ordinary joes who are keen to have a quiet emergency frequency in the background and get frustrated enough to speak out.
Do we stop kids littering in the streets by keeping quiet, or by sharply correcting them? Well?
Do we blame the "shushers" at the theatre, or the **** who is chatting loudly?
Lets get a realistic grip on who are the real problem here, and they surely aren't (in the main) the "Guard Police".
If ATC do nothing, ie are negligent, in enforcing correct use of guard then surely someone else has to? Do other nations have an auto-triangulation system on guard like the UK? If not why not, and if so why don't they use it to identify and prosecute the abusers, whistlers and chatters? I seldom notice guard abuse in UK airspace. I wonder if Drayton Centre's D and D cell's triangulator is the reason for that?
Man, there sure are some unashamed bigots here on Prune!
Here is a thread about misuse - grossly unprofessional misuse - of 121.5 by tossers calling each other for a chat, whistling, blowing raspberries etc and yet all the slamming and lambasting is being directed at the poor ordinary joes who are keen to have a quiet emergency frequency in the background and get frustrated enough to speak out.
Do we stop kids littering in the streets by keeping quiet, or by sharply correcting them? Well?
Do we blame the "shushers" at the theatre, or the **** who is chatting loudly?
Lets get a realistic grip on who are the real problem here, and they surely aren't (in the main) the "Guard Police".
If ATC do nothing, ie are negligent, in enforcing correct use of guard then surely someone else has to? Do other nations have an auto-triangulation system on guard like the UK? If not why not, and if so why don't they use it to identify and prosecute the abusers, whistlers and chatters? I seldom notice guard abuse in UK airspace. I wonder if Drayton Centre's D and D cell's triangulator is the reason for that?
some nasal Oxford accented voice