BA Unable to Meet Branson's Challenge on Slots at LHR
ENTREPPRUNEUR
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The 60s
Posts: 566
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's a good piece of publicity altjhough slightly unfair given BA hasn't got £20 million and if it had, it would come out of taxed income whereas Sir Richard would pull it off a long string of dodgy offshore stashes (why else offshore?).
I'm not sure what's particularly different anyway. BA and AA have already got all these slots so it's not a question of pinching anything off Sir R. If anything they would reduce services thus creating some space.
The issue must be through-ticketing and I can't see why Virgin can't come up with a way of competing with that proposition.
I'm not sure what's particularly different anyway. BA and AA have already got all these slots so it's not a question of pinching anything off Sir R. If anything they would reduce services thus creating some space.
The issue must be through-ticketing and I can't see why Virgin can't come up with a way of competing with that proposition.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Knold,
No. What I am saying is that the Great Smiling Pullover is a boring publicist who gets on my wick.
To issue a "Challenge" in this way is about as crass as it gets and, no, I am not BA before you ask.
No. What I am saying is that the Great Smiling Pullover is a boring publicist who gets on my wick.
To issue a "Challenge" in this way is about as crass as it gets and, no, I am not BA before you ask.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: the watch list
Posts: 516
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, it seems only natural for the competing BA to be so keen in poiting out what the authorities should confirm had it been the case, Branson obviously wouldn't miss the chance just to prove BA wrong.
Yes, yes, I know that many of you would state just that with a little grin after.
Being lazy isn't exactly what made him famous...
[ 18 December 2001: Message edited by: Knold ]
Yes, yes, I know that many of you would state just that with a little grin after.
Being lazy isn't exactly what made him famous...
[ 18 December 2001: Message edited by: Knold ]
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: the watch list
Posts: 516
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Following repeated claims by BA that slots are available to competitors...
Of course BA will insist on creating a public opinion that it’s all fair play. That there is no need to take their slots and give them to Virgin. That would be two losses in one throw for them.
[ 18 December 2001: Message edited by: Knold ]
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The 4th Quark Galaxy
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know whether the Bearded Jumper has noticed, but at the moment BA are not really in a position to waste money on stupid bets, whether its for charity (mate) or not. Skippy should have told BJ to **** up a rope the moment he laid the challenge. Now is the time for BA to just concentrate on trying to make a bit of dosh, not rising to another media event for Branson.
Perhaps he should be looking closer at keeping his airline afloat than attempting to expand LHR for the benefit of his Singapore backers and trying to make everybody look bad but him.
Charity my a*%e, it's called my job
And.....
Recover
Perhaps he should be looking closer at keeping his airline afloat than attempting to expand LHR for the benefit of his Singapore backers and trying to make everybody look bad but him.
Charity my a*%e, it's called my job
And.....
Recover
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Peoples Republic of EU
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The grinning jumper is so two faced He's all for competition until bmi wanted bermuda 2 scrapped so they could operate out of Heathrow.
Then he starts bleeting like a sheep
He's all for competition until bmi wanted bermuda 2 scrapped so they could operate out of Heathrow. Then he starts bleeting like a sheep
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Creepy Crawley
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Since when did BA become the good guys? Let us not forget that if the BA/AA deal goes through, it will be bad news for all of us.
And for all you BA guys defending poor Rod's predicament, that means you too. More frequent services on offer by flogging seats on AA flights means BA can cut frequencies on its own ac. 10,000 are rumoured to be going down the road next year with pilots being mentioned for the first time as prime candidates. This controlled leak from BA management regarding redundancies is just too coincidental, running a week before the news of the likely success with the BA/AA alliance. It's like dropping 1000 pounders at Tora Bora before the B-52s arrive.
So if Branson is successful in putting a spanner in the works, it's not BA management who should be making charitable donations. Those a little closer to the shop floor might have reason to be grateful.
And for all you BA guys defending poor Rod's predicament, that means you too. More frequent services on offer by flogging seats on AA flights means BA can cut frequencies on its own ac. 10,000 are rumoured to be going down the road next year with pilots being mentioned for the first time as prime candidates. This controlled leak from BA management regarding redundancies is just too coincidental, running a week before the news of the likely success with the BA/AA alliance. It's like dropping 1000 pounders at Tora Bora before the B-52s arrive.
So if Branson is successful in putting a spanner in the works, it's not BA management who should be making charitable donations. Those a little closer to the shop floor might have reason to be grateful.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: London, England
Age: 56
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BA might not be the good guys, at the moment, but they certainly are not the bad boys.
Everybody is currently jumping all over this press report that 10000 are going to be made redundant, well I've got news for everyone, no-one knows what is going to happen yet. Admitedly, managment are looking at loads of options, from shutting everything down to doing nothing.
What did RB do as soon as everything kicked off, laid people off, including pilots.
The guy is just a self publicist who hides his failings behind bravado. He realises that he will never make money flying airplanes, and wants to beat down everyone that can do a better job than him, would we still see his planes flying if Singapore hadn't helped him out?
He managed to get slots from LHR for all his services didn't he so why bleat like a lamb about BA holding slots. I bet he wouldn't give his up without a fight!!
Lets give up on the BA bashing for a while eh? and wait to see what they have in store after Christmas, then we can go on facts not speculation.
Everybody is currently jumping all over this press report that 10000 are going to be made redundant, well I've got news for everyone, no-one knows what is going to happen yet. Admitedly, managment are looking at loads of options, from shutting everything down to doing nothing.
What did RB do as soon as everything kicked off, laid people off, including pilots.
The guy is just a self publicist who hides his failings behind bravado. He realises that he will never make money flying airplanes, and wants to beat down everyone that can do a better job than him, would we still see his planes flying if Singapore hadn't helped him out?
He managed to get slots from LHR for all his services didn't he so why bleat like a lamb about BA holding slots. I bet he wouldn't give his up without a fight!!
Lets give up on the BA bashing for a while eh? and wait to see what they have in store after Christmas, then we can go on facts not speculation.
PPRuNe Person
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: see roster
Posts: 1,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Heh. So Ozdude reckons I'm 'out of order' flaming the Guv, then goes on to expose the guy as a shameless fantasist, Walter Mitty-type character. Well, Ozdude, I don't care. You make your postings, I'll make mine.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Inside the M25
Posts: 2,404
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Er, I think a few people have missed the point. Let me try and summarise what it seems to be.
1. BA/AA say its OK for them to work completely together, giving up nothing, as anybody could come along and start up North Atlantic routes with LHR as it is today with no problem.
2. Branson said that this was not so. In fact it would not be possible to even set up an operation with ten flights per day throughout the week using the same slots (i.e. same time of flight - a pretty basic requirement to attract business traffic). In fact, he was so sure of this that he would place £20M of his own money in a bet.
BA were being challenged to substantiate their claims. They didn't.
Branson may have his faults, but he has fought to get where he is. Unlike BA, who were given a fleet, virtual control over the largest UK airport, a market position which is still more dominant than those of almost any other privatised national insdustry, and who still can't make money on anything other than long haul monopoly routes.
Actually, upon review, maybe that had been established. Oh well.
[ 20 December 2001: Message edited by: Exile from Groggs ]</p>
1. BA/AA say its OK for them to work completely together, giving up nothing, as anybody could come along and start up North Atlantic routes with LHR as it is today with no problem.
2. Branson said that this was not so. In fact it would not be possible to even set up an operation with ten flights per day throughout the week using the same slots (i.e. same time of flight - a pretty basic requirement to attract business traffic). In fact, he was so sure of this that he would place £20M of his own money in a bet.
BA were being challenged to substantiate their claims. They didn't.
Branson may have his faults, but he has fought to get where he is. Unlike BA, who were given a fleet, virtual control over the largest UK airport, a market position which is still more dominant than those of almost any other privatised national insdustry, and who still can't make money on anything other than long haul monopoly routes.
Actually, upon review, maybe that had been established. Oh well.
[ 20 December 2001: Message edited by: Exile from Groggs ]</p>
Dog Tired
Oz: if the Guv is such a waste of space as you imply (and I would beware litigation aspects if I were you) then you should not compliment him with a reply. It takes ages to scroll thro all this dross and find no result at the end. Admitted, this is 'rumours and news' but debate is better than pointless slanging. Not just you, of course,but let us raise the game a bit eh?
Me new to this and have no idea at all who Guv is.or anyone else, for that matter! <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Me new to this and have no idea at all who Guv is.or anyone else, for that matter! <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: uk
Posts: 299
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guvnor, I really believe that you are just ANTI B.A. You don't really expect responsible airlines to get involved in such obvious publicity stunts that your precious Sir Richard tries to pull do you?
You evidently do, so I would expect that should ever decide to get your somewhat large feet off the ground. Then you do so with an airline who evidently prefers to spend its time making crass statements, rather than one that gets on with the job in hand namely "THE SAFE TRANSPORT OF FARE PAYING PASSENGERS".
You evidently do, so I would expect that should ever decide to get your somewhat large feet off the ground. Then you do so with an airline who evidently prefers to spend its time making crass statements, rather than one that gets on with the job in hand namely "THE SAFE TRANSPORT OF FARE PAYING PASSENGERS".
Guest
Posts: n/a
Blackball - so do you think I should rather support a carrier that is grossly anti-competitive; seeks to damage or destroy the reputations of individuals and companies wherever possible; reneges on its contractual obligations at the drop (including to staff); has as its Chairman and President-for-Life two individuals that orchestrated illegal and unethical operations that would have seen them jailed in many countries; and sees fit to waste hundreds of millions of pounds of its shareholder's money?
Let me put it this way: I started my career with Laker in '81. Nuff said! <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Let me put it this way: I started my career with Laker in '81. Nuff said! <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Inside the M25
Posts: 2,404
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah, that's right. Didn't BA handle competition from Laker really, really well "apparently"? Them and BCal, I think. And don't they have an excellent record of behaving ethically towards Virgin?
If BA are so brilliant, then how come they make an operating loss in many places other than North Atlantic, where they and other carriers (including ironically Virgin) are protected by Bermuda 2, and they were given such a massive commercial advantage over the competition to start with? Have you any idea how tough OFTEL were on BT?! What anti-competitive restrictions have BA had to deal with? How come the odour of "dirty tricks and subterfuge" has continued to stick so closely to them? Do they really need these to beat competition?
Branson may have pulled a stunt, but at least this is a fair and legitimate means of promotion - even self promotion. What's wrong with that? Aren't you influenced by advertising? Whose trainers are you wearing? Whose aftershave? Whose coffee do you drink? Whose soft drinks? Where do you eat out? Is that based on an evaluation of comparative qualities of brands? Now, if you bought a pair of Nike trainers that cost the same as a rival pair because an executive from there came up to you and said, "I'll slip you a fiver if you buy those ones", would that be ethical?
[Edited as worried about libel ....]
[ 21 December 2001: Message edited by: Exile from Groggs ]</p>
If BA are so brilliant, then how come they make an operating loss in many places other than North Atlantic, where they and other carriers (including ironically Virgin) are protected by Bermuda 2, and they were given such a massive commercial advantage over the competition to start with? Have you any idea how tough OFTEL were on BT?! What anti-competitive restrictions have BA had to deal with? How come the odour of "dirty tricks and subterfuge" has continued to stick so closely to them? Do they really need these to beat competition?
Branson may have pulled a stunt, but at least this is a fair and legitimate means of promotion - even self promotion. What's wrong with that? Aren't you influenced by advertising? Whose trainers are you wearing? Whose aftershave? Whose coffee do you drink? Whose soft drinks? Where do you eat out? Is that based on an evaluation of comparative qualities of brands? Now, if you bought a pair of Nike trainers that cost the same as a rival pair because an executive from there came up to you and said, "I'll slip you a fiver if you buy those ones", would that be ethical?
[Edited as worried about libel ....]
[ 21 December 2001: Message edited by: Exile from Groggs ]</p>