Any Objections?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Any Objections?
OFFICIAL RECORD SERIES 2 No: 1522
PART 5 FOREIGN REGISTERED AIRCRAFT Date: 8 JANUARY 2002
A - Leases of foreign registered aircraft by UK operators
REQUESTS BY UK OPERATING LICENCE AND AIR TRANSPORT LICENCE HOLDERS TO LEASE
FOREIGN REGISTERED AIRCRAFT
Excel Airways Limited applied on 2 January 2002 to wet lease four Icelandic registered B767-200 aircraft
(registrations TF -ATO, TF-ATP, TF-ATR and one to be advised) from 1 May 2002 to 31 October 2002.
The reason for the application is to supplement the Excel Airways fleet during the summer season.
The applicant currently operates no foreign registered aircraft, but during the last twelve months was authorised
to operate three of the aircraft referred to above for seven months.
Any comments or objections to this application should be sent in writing, within 10 working days, to P W Stanton,
International Aviation Policy, K4 Gate 8, Civil Aviation Authority, CAA House, 45-59 Kingsway, London WC2B
6TE.
PART 5 FOREIGN REGISTERED AIRCRAFT Date: 8 JANUARY 2002
A - Leases of foreign registered aircraft by UK operators
REQUESTS BY UK OPERATING LICENCE AND AIR TRANSPORT LICENCE HOLDERS TO LEASE
FOREIGN REGISTERED AIRCRAFT
Excel Airways Limited applied on 2 January 2002 to wet lease four Icelandic registered B767-200 aircraft
(registrations TF -ATO, TF-ATP, TF-ATR and one to be advised) from 1 May 2002 to 31 October 2002.
The reason for the application is to supplement the Excel Airways fleet during the summer season.
The applicant currently operates no foreign registered aircraft, but during the last twelve months was authorised
to operate three of the aircraft referred to above for seven months.
Any comments or objections to this application should be sent in writing, within 10 working days, to P W Stanton,
International Aviation Policy, K4 Gate 8, Civil Aviation Authority, CAA House, 45-59 Kingsway, London WC2B
6TE.
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: UK
Posts: 468
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guess the airlines will not object as they have no surplus equipment available anymore after all the crews etc. have been kicked out....
<img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
<img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This from July last year - deja vu?
<The IPA are again taking a stand on flagging out, this time over Excel's application to run 3 Icelandic 767s.
In addition, they are asking members to write (politely!) to
Mr P W Stanton
Economic Regulation Group
CAA K4 G8
45-49 Kingsway
London WC2B 6TE
He is the head of the department, which, according to the IPA, has accepted almost EVERY application for wet lease. To quote the IPA - "His view is that allowing airlines to use their commercial judgement on whether to lease foreign (non-EU) capacity is in the best interests of all employed in the aviation industry".
The IPA feel all of us may not agree, and may wish to express their feelings to this man.
The IPA also refer to the application by BA for an extension to the second 'ATLAS look-a-like' (AKA GSS) 747-400 arrangement, made, apparently, on the basis that time is required to 'bring the aircraft onto the UK register'.>
Haven't heard yet from BALPA.
<The IPA are again taking a stand on flagging out, this time over Excel's application to run 3 Icelandic 767s.
In addition, they are asking members to write (politely!) to
Mr P W Stanton
Economic Regulation Group
CAA K4 G8
45-49 Kingsway
London WC2B 6TE
He is the head of the department, which, according to the IPA, has accepted almost EVERY application for wet lease. To quote the IPA - "His view is that allowing airlines to use their commercial judgement on whether to lease foreign (non-EU) capacity is in the best interests of all employed in the aviation industry".
The IPA feel all of us may not agree, and may wish to express their feelings to this man.
The IPA also refer to the application by BA for an extension to the second 'ATLAS look-a-like' (AKA GSS) 747-400 arrangement, made, apparently, on the basis that time is required to 'bring the aircraft onto the UK register'.>
Haven't heard yet from BALPA.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unless and until UK airlines are prepared to have excess aircraft AND crews available for the summer season (and kept idle and not paid in winter), the practise will continue.
How many crews will agree to "part time employment" that the summer season offers? <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
How many crews will agree to "part time employment" that the summer season offers? <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
Guest
Posts: n/a
Excel
You will find that this is just the tip of the iceberg. They will lease in a lot of other capacity which hasnt got Excel painted onthe side just as they did last year.In addition they are employing pilots on temporary summer contracts this year I understand. If so this arrangment allows them to do it.BALPA and the IPA have objected
You will find that this is just the tip of the iceberg. They will lease in a lot of other capacity which hasnt got Excel painted onthe side just as they did last year.In addition they are employing pilots on temporary summer contracts this year I understand. If so this arrangment allows them to do it.BALPA and the IPA have objected
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think its true to say that Excel operate 6 737NG
of their own. Given the statements on this thread it indicates that about 70% of their capacity will be flagged out with the CAA's approval. Given the current state of the UK pilot emplyment situation how can this be acceptable? No doubt it is highly acceptable to their owners Cypriots I am led to believe
of their own. Given the statements on this thread it indicates that about 70% of their capacity will be flagged out with the CAA's approval. Given the current state of the UK pilot emplyment situation how can this be acceptable? No doubt it is highly acceptable to their owners Cypriots I am led to believe
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: LHR
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The temporary contracts offered to the UK Pilots were very poor indeed financially and as a result most of the guys lined up who had originally accepted jobs have recently rejected them and gone elsewhwere to better paid and more importantly-permanent jobs ( I persoanlly know of 4 Guys-with 3 more who are just waiting on results from recent interviews!!)...things are improving on the job front and Excel will soon realise they cant pay peanuts to guys because of the market conditions, they will end up with the wrong guys in there shiny new Jets... shame really, they look like a smart outfit from the outside. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,958
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The IPA objected to their application for three 767's last year, and hopefully will also do so with this -but without the support of pilots there is no guarantee of success. The simple fact is that Mr Stanton at the CAA DOES NOT CARE if every one of us loses our job.
UK pilots, if you are bothered about having a job you MUST write to your MP and to the address in the CAA to object to this.
(House of Commons, London, SW1A 0AA)
UK pilots, if you are bothered about having a job you MUST write to your MP and to the address in the CAA to object to this.
(House of Commons, London, SW1A 0AA)
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: PlanetX
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Putting aside whether or not one likes the idea, I understand that due to the relationship between the EU and Iceland, it is legal (within the EU anyway). Before the abuse starts about unemployed pilots etc (for whom I have the greatest sympathy), I'm just stating the facts as I believe them to be.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey, people. I'm as supportive of unemployed UK pilots as anyone else, but it seems to have escaped everyone's attention that almost all the pilots on Excel's 767s last summer were EU nationals. They were as entitled to be there as UK pilots are entitled to fly elsewhere in the EU (licencing problems are a different issue). That operation also provided livlihoods for a lot of British cabin crew, never mind all the supporting services. Air Atlanta advertised for UK/EU 767 pilots to fly those aircraft, so what stopped you from applying?
Wicked Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: I-
Posts: 575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have to agree, worked for Excel last summer, therefore for Air Atlanta on their 767. Both great bunch of people <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> . .And as NR said...all Europeans (like myself) 
therefore with legal right to live and work in UK. .Happy landings <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
[ 21 January 2002: Message edited by: Xenia ]</p>
therefore with legal right to live and work in UK. .Happy landings <img src="smile.gif" border="0">[ 21 January 2002: Message edited by: Xenia ]</p>
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,958
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
xenia/nearly ret, all very well -except that Iceland IS NOT IN THE EU!
While it is a member of the EEA, that does not mean any flight crew involved have to be. Once a wet lease deal like this is rubber-stamped the crew can come in from anywhere in the world -regardless of how many UK residents are on the dole.
While it is a member of the EEA, that does not mean any flight crew involved have to be. Once a wet lease deal like this is rubber-stamped the crew can come in from anywhere in the world -regardless of how many UK residents are on the dole.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This situation is also allowing Excel to employ temporary contract pilots for the summer and grant summer only commands. You people at JMC, I think the whole charter industry is looking with great interest at the Excel business model.Excel are already doing what is threatened at Virgin and JMC. They are also flagging out a vast amount of their capacity. A friend of mine who works there tells me the directors point blank refuse to recognise BALPA!!!! I wonder why??. .If Excel continue to get away with all this the rest of the charter industry will follow suit,the bean counters love it.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Shotone. .You are so right iceland is not in the EU. Another point that our friend Santon at the CAA might like to consider is that non of these pilots at Air Atlanta,South Atlantic Airways and any other company Excel chooses to use are not paying UK tax whilst Brit pilots are on the dole
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Montsegur
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The EU and the EEA form a single aviation market. Air Atlanta has the right to operate services on all intra EU/EEA routes. Air Atlanta could be chartered to operate (most/all?)the services they would have been used for under the wet-lease. Preventing the wet-lease would have no guarentee of ensuring that the services were operated by a UK airline but could affect the UK airline wishing to wet lease. This is something else that the CAA need to consider.