JMC A330's to go??
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OK
Lets get to the facts... Anyone interested??
GUV..Often wondered where you get your info from. Now I know. You just make it up.
The first JMC A330 (GOJMB) is in service, and for the first few months was only ever scheduled for 3 flights a week. The second a/c (GOJMC) is still happening, will be with us in the Spring.
Full flying programs for the Summer for both a/c.
For the record JMC never operated Tristars and the DC10's have been returned to the leasing company.
Lets get to the facts... Anyone interested??
GUV..Often wondered where you get your info from. Now I know. You just make it up.
The first JMC A330 (GOJMB) is in service, and for the first few months was only ever scheduled for 3 flights a week. The second a/c (GOJMC) is still happening, will be with us in the Spring.
Full flying programs for the Summer for both a/c.
For the record JMC never operated Tristars and the DC10's have been returned to the leasing company.
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Are the 330s to be swopped for future- 2003-2004 320/321 orders for the group?
When Mr.Borai and Lufthansa have persuaded airbus to accept the return of the 330s will there be contractual fleet redundancies? An easy way to offload the more expensive pilots. <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
When Mr.Borai and Lufthansa have persuaded airbus to accept the return of the 330s will there be contractual fleet redundancies? An easy way to offload the more expensive pilots. <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
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There may be a full flying program on the A330 at the moment but that doesn't tell the whole story. The a/c can fly all day but if the seat rate it has been sold is pants you are simply flying for peanuts.
The whole Canadian program is running barely at cost to JMC as they picked the work up in desperation. As for your SFB flying.... You will see that drop out of your program in the NY unless bookings pick up. At present JMC cant sell there Florida holidays for toffee. Most of the 3rd party flying JMC have had in the past on there SFB route has gone to the new boys on there B747-200's !!! as advised on an earlier thread.
I know from the horses mouth that if JMC could give the A330 back they would.... but they cant so the next best thing is get it flying at any cost, and that is what they are doing.
,,, As said before, ask the one who knows,,,
<img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
The whole Canadian program is running barely at cost to JMC as they picked the work up in desperation. As for your SFB flying.... You will see that drop out of your program in the NY unless bookings pick up. At present JMC cant sell there Florida holidays for toffee. Most of the 3rd party flying JMC have had in the past on there SFB route has gone to the new boys on there B747-200's !!! as advised on an earlier thread.
I know from the horses mouth that if JMC could give the A330 back they would.... but they cant so the next best thing is get it flying at any cost, and that is what they are doing.
,,, As said before, ask the one who knows,,,
<img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
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Regarding NOVAIR which was mentioned in some question some time ago in this thread:
NOVAIR is not bust and does not have any more problems (probably less) than any other charter airline today. They still have 2 A330-200 (and 3 B737), one used for charter from Sweden, the other for whatever work comes up. This week it was to Cancun for Air Europe Italy, last week Mombasa and Male for Edelweiss. No pilots has been sacked.
MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR to all of you! <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
NOVAIR is not bust and does not have any more problems (probably less) than any other charter airline today. They still have 2 A330-200 (and 3 B737), one used for charter from Sweden, the other for whatever work comes up. This week it was to Cancun for Air Europe Italy, last week Mombasa and Male for Edelweiss. No pilots has been sacked.
MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR to all of you! <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Gamekeeper
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Golden Lion,
Who exactly is the horses mouth? Are you one of those disgruntled ex `Cal Drivers' per chance, hoping for the company that pays your way to go belly-up!
The 330 may have come at a bad time & maybe tour ops haven't used their abacus properly, but the death cruiser & the trick star were killing us big time - the term haemorrhaging money comes to mind.
....rant over.....PFR
nevertheless Seasons Greetings, well it's the season of good will & all that........
Who exactly is the horses mouth? Are you one of those disgruntled ex `Cal Drivers' per chance, hoping for the company that pays your way to go belly-up!
The 330 may have come at a bad time & maybe tour ops haven't used their abacus properly, but the death cruiser & the trick star were killing us big time - the term haemorrhaging money comes to mind.
....rant over.....PFR
nevertheless Seasons Greetings, well it's the season of good will & all that........
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PFR
FYI... I am not or have never been an "ex cally driver" disgruntled or not, and I certainly do not wish any company to go belly up.
Obviously I am not going to divulge my sources but it is fair to say that I am in the know at alot higher level than sitting at the pointy end with nothing better to do than gossip.
By your post it is obvious to see that there is still a "them and us" culture at JMC between the ex Cally/FCL guys. Maybe this is where alot of JMC's trouble lies ?????
Also.... dont you let the GUV hear you putting the Tristar down, you will get in alsorts of trouble..
[ 24 December 2001: Message edited by: Golden Lion ]</p>
FYI... I am not or have never been an "ex cally driver" disgruntled or not, and I certainly do not wish any company to go belly up.
Obviously I am not going to divulge my sources but it is fair to say that I am in the know at alot higher level than sitting at the pointy end with nothing better to do than gossip.
By your post it is obvious to see that there is still a "them and us" culture at JMC between the ex Cally/FCL guys. Maybe this is where alot of JMC's trouble lies ?????
Also.... dont you let the GUV hear you putting the Tristar down, you will get in alsorts of trouble..
[ 24 December 2001: Message edited by: Golden Lion ]</p>
Thread Starter
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Firstly, thanks to all who have posted replies to my original question.
Picking up on the previous posts from Golden Lion and PFR....whilst the DC10 and L1011 are old and expensive units in terms of DOC's and maintenance, that does not tell the full story. The problem facing JMC, although they are not the only ones, is monthly lease costs and therefore required seat sale rate versus market demand and price tolerance.
In the current climate, those airlines that operate new equipment are on a sticky wicket, because even with renegotiated lease costs these aircraft are stil costing US$650,000 plus per month.
On the other hand, an airline running older aircraft can still do the same job at a fraction of the cost, take EAC,s B747's for example. They can afford to fly those units for a third of the amount of hours that JMC require to fly the A330's just to break even. This leaves alot more time to maintain the older units and still make money.
Obviously, at the time JMC ordered the A330's it seemed a sensible proposition, no one could have foreseen the tragic events of 11 Sept.
The reality now is that whilst airlines still have to run new, expensive aircraft in a market that will no longer sustain the required revenues, the leasing companies still want their bills paid.
The market will pick-up again eventually, but the trick is being able to weather the storm until this happens.......unfortunately, not all will stay afloat, but those with the cheaper units have a better chance.
Happy Xmas all <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Picking up on the previous posts from Golden Lion and PFR....whilst the DC10 and L1011 are old and expensive units in terms of DOC's and maintenance, that does not tell the full story. The problem facing JMC, although they are not the only ones, is monthly lease costs and therefore required seat sale rate versus market demand and price tolerance.
In the current climate, those airlines that operate new equipment are on a sticky wicket, because even with renegotiated lease costs these aircraft are stil costing US$650,000 plus per month.
On the other hand, an airline running older aircraft can still do the same job at a fraction of the cost, take EAC,s B747's for example. They can afford to fly those units for a third of the amount of hours that JMC require to fly the A330's just to break even. This leaves alot more time to maintain the older units and still make money.
Obviously, at the time JMC ordered the A330's it seemed a sensible proposition, no one could have foreseen the tragic events of 11 Sept.
The reality now is that whilst airlines still have to run new, expensive aircraft in a market that will no longer sustain the required revenues, the leasing companies still want their bills paid.
The market will pick-up again eventually, but the trick is being able to weather the storm until this happens.......unfortunately, not all will stay afloat, but those with the cheaper units have a better chance.
Happy Xmas all <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
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New aircraft are like new cars. You go and buy yourself a brand new 5 Series BMW, and you're looking at 20%+ depreciation the moment you drive it out of the showroom. You gain what, exactly? Well, you'll have that new car smell, it will be under warranty (excluding consumables and wear-and-tear items), and you can show off to your mates down the pub.
It still does exactly the same as a 20 year old model of the same car. The new one looks sexier, and it has all those switches, dials and GPS systems that can pinpoint your mother-in-law's house and call down a Tomahawk airstrike. It's also built by robots and designed to fall apart in exactly five years - the marketing boys finally woke up to the fact that building durable cars was bad for sales. The electronics are designed to cease functioning exactly 24 hours after the expiry of the warranty, whereafter your car will spend more time in the workshop than out of it; in the process trebling the manufacturer's profits on the original sale.
The old one, on the other hand, will just keep chugging along. It doesn't look as sexy, and it doesn't have all the electronic gadgets that are the dogs whatsits; sure, it burns a bit of oil and you've replaced a few bits along the way - but it still outpaces most modern cars and carries as many passengers. It needs a bit of care and attention - and doesn't always start first time, especiall if it's wet or on winter mornings. So what if you can't afford to replace it as you'd only get £500 on trade-in ... it still does the job you bought it for when you paid £300 for it three years ago.
Most importantly, it drives like a real car.
It still does exactly the same as a 20 year old model of the same car. The new one looks sexier, and it has all those switches, dials and GPS systems that can pinpoint your mother-in-law's house and call down a Tomahawk airstrike. It's also built by robots and designed to fall apart in exactly five years - the marketing boys finally woke up to the fact that building durable cars was bad for sales. The electronics are designed to cease functioning exactly 24 hours after the expiry of the warranty, whereafter your car will spend more time in the workshop than out of it; in the process trebling the manufacturer's profits on the original sale.
The old one, on the other hand, will just keep chugging along. It doesn't look as sexy, and it doesn't have all the electronic gadgets that are the dogs whatsits; sure, it burns a bit of oil and you've replaced a few bits along the way - but it still outpaces most modern cars and carries as many passengers. It needs a bit of care and attention - and doesn't always start first time, especiall if it's wet or on winter mornings. So what if you can't afford to replace it as you'd only get £500 on trade-in ... it still does the job you bought it for when you paid £300 for it three years ago.
Most importantly, it drives like a real car.
Terrier
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PFR,
You are quite wrong. GOLDEN LION is I think a pen pushing office sitting Pilot hater. Perhaps a failed pilot?!?
But then again, I am just an ill informed jmc driver aren't I?
An ex Cally office worker who is p'd off.....because his/her life is dull. Get back to Caledonian House and whinge then GOLDEN LION. You do yourself no credit at all.
Let those of us who care try and enjoy working for what I think is intrinsically still a decent company.
And if you have so much info at hand, why don't you spell it out here? Scared to be rumbled????
You are quite wrong. GOLDEN LION is I think a pen pushing office sitting Pilot hater. Perhaps a failed pilot?!?
But then again, I am just an ill informed jmc driver aren't I?
An ex Cally office worker who is p'd off.....because his/her life is dull. Get back to Caledonian House and whinge then GOLDEN LION. You do yourself no credit at all.
Let those of us who care try and enjoy working for what I think is intrinsically still a decent company.
And if you have so much info at hand, why don't you spell it out here? Scared to be rumbled????
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May I propose some sensible applications for Tristars:
1. Supply an aircraft to the Science Museum - they are planning a major revamp.
2. Donate to the ATC
3. Turn into novelty restaurant
4. Fire Service Training
5. Etc. - any imaginative ideas?
What we must avoid is the prospect of these tired old ladies being taken from their grazing meadow and being put back to work. It's just not humane.
1. Supply an aircraft to the Science Museum - they are planning a major revamp.
2. Donate to the ATC
3. Turn into novelty restaurant
4. Fire Service Training
5. Etc. - any imaginative ideas?
What we must avoid is the prospect of these tired old ladies being taken from their grazing meadow and being put back to work. It's just not humane.
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Don't let em grind u down Guv, bring the old buckets back, coz i'm runnin short of cash, it being Xmas and all!! I never could fix em, and don't believe anyone who says they could! Wot an MEL though!!
Can't really understand the passion though, coz a autopilot is an autopilot, ain't it?
Still wot do I know, just change litebulbs me!!
All the best for the New Year, and keep the bitchin goin!!
Can't really understand the passion though, coz a autopilot is an autopilot, ain't it?
Still wot do I know, just change litebulbs me!!
All the best for the New Year, and keep the bitchin goin!!
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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If the 747 was so good why did BA sell them? They could just have easily kept them on the ground as standby's. They were cheap because there was no market for them at a higher price. All we need now is for fuel prices to harden a couple of dollars then all the "smart" money will have their fingers badly burnt. We must have seen it happen 10 times in the last 20 years.
Compared to a modern twin the 747 burns fuel and costs maintenance time. Long term it is a nono.
Compared to a modern twin the 747 burns fuel and costs maintenance time. Long term it is a nono.
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Budgie69 - the stately old L10s have a design life far in excess of that of the current crop of birds. And not one design related crash, either!
Litebulbs - yup, none of these black box whotsits that each cost as much as a five bedroomed house in Mayfair; real aircraft those L10s!
sky9 - all very true, but I suspect that Stoddart is doing what Air Atlanta have done very successfully - take aircraft that have a few years remaining to their D checks, fly them and chuck them away. There's a good couple of million profit just in the maintenance reserves you don't need - at least it will keep Minardi in F1 for the next season!
The only reason for the price of oil to soom up will be if the current 'policing actions' start to involve the Middle East.
Frankly, if that happens then it's going to be game over for us all - so I wouldn't worry about it!
Litebulbs - yup, none of these black box whotsits that each cost as much as a five bedroomed house in Mayfair; real aircraft those L10s!
sky9 - all very true, but I suspect that Stoddart is doing what Air Atlanta have done very successfully - take aircraft that have a few years remaining to their D checks, fly them and chuck them away. There's a good couple of million profit just in the maintenance reserves you don't need - at least it will keep Minardi in F1 for the next season!
The only reason for the price of oil to soom up will be if the current 'policing actions' start to involve the Middle East.
Frankly, if that happens then it's going to be game over for us all - so I wouldn't worry about it!
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If JMC wanna use a brand new 330 to a second hand 747 its up to them. Excalibur tried using a clapped out DC10 and look where it got them.
Take away the vertically intergrated Companies
which Holiday Companies are left that can move 400+ pax in a B747 or one of the Guv's mysterious L1011's, and on a regular basis. Not many!.
Don't forget there is a 20 year old rule on Haj's as well so will the ex BA 747's be inside this?.
<img src="mad.gif" border="0">
Take away the vertically intergrated Companies
which Holiday Companies are left that can move 400+ pax in a B747 or one of the Guv's mysterious L1011's, and on a regular basis. Not many!.
Don't forget there is a 20 year old rule on Haj's as well so will the ex BA 747's be inside this?.
<img src="mad.gif" border="0">
