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Swiss Air 111

Old 22nd May 2007, 20:58
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Swiss Air 111

The Canadian Transportation Safety Board has released the ATC tapes of SR111 that crashed of the Halifax coast.......

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...0521/20070522/
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Old 22nd May 2007, 21:31
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Hearing those tapes was horrific, it made me emotional. As a professional pilot I dont know if it is decent to listen to such tapes; on the other hand it really brings home the reality of these accidents and may help reinforce any lessons to be learned.
God bless them all.
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Old 22nd May 2007, 21:45
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F4F
 
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Can only rally myself to your words CaptainSandL...
Unfortunately lived the tragedy closely at the time

Once more, you all RIP!
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Old 22nd May 2007, 22:34
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Sorry, in my book there is nothing to be gained except to satisfy some voyeuristic and obscene desire to hear the last words of the unfortunate pilots about to die and the controllers unfortunate enough to be handling the flight.

What on earth is to be gained that we already have not gained from the extensive and categoric report into the accident?
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Old 22nd May 2007, 22:47
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I agree to an extent, but transcripts don't convey emotion ( probably fortunately). However if anyone still has any doubts about the dangers of smoke in the air, they should listen to these tapes. It is fairly obvious from the R/T early on that these poor guys, RIP, really had no idea how quickly things were going to unravel around them.
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Old 22nd May 2007, 22:50
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Won't click there

I have read the case - the words. They were clear enough. I am not going to click on that link to hear the tone of voice, as it won`t assist me to understand the accident.

FC.
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Old 22nd May 2007, 22:51
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M.Mouse....

I do agree with you to a certain extent. It may be seen by some to play into the hands of the voyeuristic and obscene, but would you rather it be covered up, and remain under lock and key? Look at the events surrounding Spet. 11, a lot of those tapes and camera images will never be released. Hence, we are stuck with conspiracy theorists, and videos like "loose Change" on you tube. And that, to me, is more obscene to victims of such tragedies.

Read the following.........

Within days of the tragedy, the safety board released transcripts of the air traffic control recordings but steadfastly refused to release the audio itself, saying it contained personal information.

John Reid, then Canada's information commissioner, initially supported the refusal. "In my view, the voices, along with the tonal and emotive characteristics constitute personal information of three air traffic controllers and the two pilots," he ruled in 1999.

But after receiving complaints about the board's refusal to release ATC recordings for four other air disasters, Reid changed his mind and went to court. He lost at federal court in 2005, but won on appeal in 2006 when three justices dismissed the claim that ATC audio recordings by their very nature contain personal information.

The Federal Court of Appeal also dismissed a claim by Nav Canada, responsible for air traffic control, that such recordings are "commercial" and should therefore be withheld to protect the business interests of the organization.

The safety board and Nav Canada then went to the Supreme Court of Canada but were rebuffed last month when the high court refused leave to appeal. The board was therefore compelled to turn over the Swissair tapes after an Access to Information Act request from The Canadian Press, which was a complainant in the court action over the four other air disasters.

The high court ruling brings Canada into line with the United States, where ATC recordings have been available to the public for years. Even in Canada, radio enthusiasts have long been able to freely monitor ATC transmissions because open, unencrypted communication among aircraft and ground controllers has been seen as an essential safety measure.

At least one U.S.-based website (www.liveatc.net) broadcasts live ATC transmissions from airports around the world, including Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver.

In Canada, cockpit voice recordings of conversations between pilots remain legally unavailable because of privacy rules. The Swissair investigation was hobbled in part because cockpit recording equipment failed in the last few minutes of the flight, apparently due to electrical failures.
Sourced from: http://www.cjob.com/news/index.aspx?..../n052127A.xml
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Old 22nd May 2007, 22:54
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Tone of voice

Indeed it is shocking, bt a warning to all of us should it happen. Lesson learned to all of us if there is smoke or fire: LAND, do not care about dumping fuel, ATC etc, LAND ASAP
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Old 22nd May 2007, 22:58
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I do agree with you to a certain extent. It may be seen by some to play into the hands of the voyeuristic and obscene, but would you rather it be covered up, and remain under lock and key?
Yes, absolutely- it's ghoulish, and you learn absolutely nothing new above what the transcript says. They were about to die- their privacy should be respected. It's morbid and prurient to want to listen to them. The Cockpit Voice Recorders, as an invasion of privacy, were accepted by pilots for the safety aspects should they not survive. They were not intended for entertainment.
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Old 22nd May 2007, 23:08
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conspiracy?

Do not mix up facts with conpiracy. SR111 was properly investigated in contrary to 911, if in doubt check www.ntsb.gov. Until a proper investigation is done as in all other aviation accidents expect legitimate inquiries like "Loose change".
More over we are not talking about CVR but ATC communications which are not private and can and si monitored daily by thousands of aviation fans, spotters etc.
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Old 22nd May 2007, 23:21
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Flyingcroc...

You're right. They are not to be mixed.
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Old 22nd May 2007, 23:23
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Who would like to say what useful information the public gets from listening to audio recordings of CVRs or ATC live transmissions of an incident that you don't get from a transcript? And can anybody explain the prurient interest in listening to such recordings when the conversations can be more clearly followed in transcript form?

And this thread is about 111, not 911.
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Old 22nd May 2007, 23:36
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To Rainbow

I know this reordings are painful, and I am closer to it for reasons. However, does it serve purpose? I try to learn from it and yes it is painful to hear the voices. However again, whatever we speak on the airwaves is public, be it on ATC recordings, private scanners, spotters, internet live transmissions or even on our pilot chat freq 123.45.
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Old 22nd May 2007, 23:57
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One more thing on the internet which shouldn't be. I'd rather not listen, thank you.
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Old 23rd May 2007, 00:28
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What purpose do the tapes serve?

The transcript is available, we know what caused the accident and, like most aeroplane accidents, pilots especially have probably learned something from the tragedy.

If I have an aeroplane crash and am killed I cannot imagine the distress to my surviving relatives knowing, or worse hearing, my last few words available on the internet under the guise of 'freedom of information'. I suspect that the only people to reallybenefit are those whose websites hold those recordings.

It bears uncomfortable comparison to websites which specialise in hosting the stuff which appeals to our baser instincts. Again to what end?
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Old 23rd May 2007, 00:32
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Again Mouse

Suppose you are a pilot, all your transmissions are public, like it or not, that is our job. Exploiting an accident, you bet the greedy press will, they do so every way they can. However few people will show interest in the real reasons of aviation accidents, most might be pilots wanting to know answers what happened and how to avoid it in the future.
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Old 23rd May 2007, 02:10
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Why did it take 11 years to release these tapes? What's so incriminating about them?
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Old 23rd May 2007, 07:08
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There is no reason for those tapes to come up right now, 11 years later except that the Swissair trail just has come to an end. There is no verdict out yet though both the prosecution and the defense have made their case. I don’t know who would profit from the tapes or why but this is the connection I see.
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Old 23rd May 2007, 07:37
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Have to agree with Croc.

Never let a checklist get in the way of airmanship. If the strip of tarmac is long enough for your weight (as I believe it was) just get the thing on the ground and let the engineers worry about the overweight landing!

Not having a pop at the deceased RIP, they did exactly what they were trained to do (have spoken to many a Swiss Air pilot), thats not to say that the Swiss training was the right way to go about things ie flying by numbers!

The reason I feel this way, is because I happen to fly for a company that is trying to eliminate any form of airmanship from its operation.
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Old 23rd May 2007, 07:40
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Air Traffic communications are in the public domain; the entire range of VHF frequencies can be listened to over radio scanners or VHF transceivers which can be purchased in stores or online everywhere by anyone.
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