T4 Shambles - 21 May 1400
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well as someone who has to secure your cabin im very surprised you think we take too long! in 10 years ive never known departure to be delayed by securing cabins in fact im usually sat on jump seat well before departure taking in a few senic circuits of heathrow before the off
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Cockup....brewery.....same sh.t....different terminal...LHR,what can we say...a nightmare on bath road to all who have to use it.the only saving grace is that FRA and CDG are just as bad.The european hub that seems to have working procedures is AMS,and with acres of space for taxiway expansion,can only get better.T5 will be a huge improvement for BA passengers enjoying a smooth transfer procedure and enhanced facilities whilst still on terra firma.Alas,I believe all will continue as at present when call for push and start receives the same curt response and we have to take our place in that ever lengthening queue...just realise how lucky we are that we don't have to remove our shoes and declare any liquids before we get pushed back from stand....if only my continuing optimism could make things get better !!
And if we're into that, was the captain of LHR - GVA yesterday evening being economical or truthful when he told us that the 35 - 40 minute delay was "BAA couldn't find us a parking space" ?
I don't care if it's BAA or BA's fault, but I do think pax should be peeved at the right people !
I don't care if it's BAA or BA's fault, but I do think pax should be peeved at the right people !
Join Date: Feb 2002
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If it was the BA735 it landed 18;20z and on chocks at 18:40z which is 20 minutes and it landed 09L so had a little bit of taxying to do. Not that bad considering it had to cross 09R as well
BA do the stand allocation for T4 NOT the BAA.
Just wait till BA do the stand allocation for T5 !!! I am sure it will work like clockwork
BA do the stand allocation for T4 NOT the BAA.
Just wait till BA do the stand allocation for T5 !!! I am sure it will work like clockwork
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Mike Jenvey
In my 8 years at LHR I've not known the deps queue be 40 mins other than at times of very bad weather, airfield incidents etc. In normal ops which we've been for the last month that would equate to over 30 aircraft at the holding pioint.
30 aircraft started by delivery, never mind at the holding point would raise a lot of eyebrows
Either way the skippers PA was bull$hit
holding in the (40+ mins) queue for departure
30 aircraft started by delivery, never mind at the holding point would raise a lot of eyebrows
Either way the skippers PA was bull$hit
Join Date: Nov 2004
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CLC....we're not always to blame!
Wow...well, CLC have taken a battering on this thread....!
So, as a BA CLC Hub Controller, allow me to share a few things, from the 'other side'.
Today, I planned a nice little A319 departure from T4. The Captain was on day 1 of his trip, so no excuses for 'late inbound'. Trim was released 180 minutes before departure.
At -60, I try to finalise the fuel figures, but the Captain hasn't entered them in FICO. No worries, we've still got plenty of time. At -40, the Dispatcher phones me, asking for the Provisional Load Sheet. I can't provide it, because the Captain still hasn't finalised the fuel. At -27, we're ready to start boarding, cabin crew are in place, the Passenger Services team are at the gate and all almost bags are loaded. It's looking good for that elusive 'on-time departure', except, the Captain STILL isn't onboard!
So, it's -10. All passengers are in their seats, we're ready to close doors and push-back. However, the provisional load sheet is STILL not completed, as the Captain hasn't provided the fuel. Then, I get a call, from the Captain.
"Sorry, got chatting to a mate over coffee at Compass Centre. 6 decimal 5 final fuel please, and hurry up, we don't want to be late pushing!"
Cheeky b*****d!
Fuel topped-off, pushed-back ten minutes late. Dispatcher sends me the final dispatch info 3 minutes later. ACARS sent within 60 seconds and acknowledged 4 minutes later.
Now, that of course is just an example of the process. But there are SO many factors that delay the delivery of the ACARS loadsheet to the aircraft in a timely fashion. In this instance, the delay was, in fact, the flight crew, and was recorded as such.
It just shows, we ALL need to work together to make our daily operation work, and to not screw it up for all of Heathrows' other users. Rocket science, it isn't.....
So, as a BA CLC Hub Controller, allow me to share a few things, from the 'other side'.
Today, I planned a nice little A319 departure from T4. The Captain was on day 1 of his trip, so no excuses for 'late inbound'. Trim was released 180 minutes before departure.
At -60, I try to finalise the fuel figures, but the Captain hasn't entered them in FICO. No worries, we've still got plenty of time. At -40, the Dispatcher phones me, asking for the Provisional Load Sheet. I can't provide it, because the Captain still hasn't finalised the fuel. At -27, we're ready to start boarding, cabin crew are in place, the Passenger Services team are at the gate and all almost bags are loaded. It's looking good for that elusive 'on-time departure', except, the Captain STILL isn't onboard!
So, it's -10. All passengers are in their seats, we're ready to close doors and push-back. However, the provisional load sheet is STILL not completed, as the Captain hasn't provided the fuel. Then, I get a call, from the Captain.
"Sorry, got chatting to a mate over coffee at Compass Centre. 6 decimal 5 final fuel please, and hurry up, we don't want to be late pushing!"
Cheeky b*****d!
Fuel topped-off, pushed-back ten minutes late. Dispatcher sends me the final dispatch info 3 minutes later. ACARS sent within 60 seconds and acknowledged 4 minutes later.
Now, that of course is just an example of the process. But there are SO many factors that delay the delivery of the ACARS loadsheet to the aircraft in a timely fashion. In this instance, the delay was, in fact, the flight crew, and was recorded as such.
It just shows, we ALL need to work together to make our daily operation work, and to not screw it up for all of Heathrows' other users. Rocket science, it isn't.....
Last edited by LHR_777; 4th Jun 2007 at 18:19. Reason: pprune screwed-up my paragraphs!
Join Date: Mar 1999
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How about a provisional load sheet with sector fuel (sword or whatever your name for the plog is) and give the guy an accurate underload?
We can add 800kgs and LMC it without a new loadsheet.
It's still giving his lateship the final say, but unless it's bad weather then 800kg extra for a 319 covers quite a lot of contingencys.(spelling?)
Top him off (or top him if you'd rather
) wave away the fueller and point and point out how you've saved the day against all odds, again
We can add 800kgs and LMC it without a new loadsheet.
It's still giving his lateship the final say, but unless it's bad weather then 800kg extra for a 319 covers quite a lot of contingencys.(spelling?)
Top him off (or top him if you'd rather
) wave away the fueller and point and point out how you've saved the day against all odds, again
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I agree....
...that we should be able to do a provisional with SWORD or CIRRUS fuel, but very often the final fuel is several thousand KG's over that in the system. So, we're told (by our management) NO provisional without either ACARS or FICO fuel, or final fuel from the TRM.
(As an example, a LHR-MAN sector today increased by 4500KGS. A LHR-JFK increased by 8000KGS). My (non-CLC) LHR-SIN last night increased by 12,500KGS. )
(As an example, a LHR-MAN sector today increased by 4500KGS. A LHR-JFK increased by 8000KGS). My (non-CLC) LHR-SIN last night increased by 12,500KGS. )
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Assuming you are who you say you are, on at least half the occasions recently when ex-CCO or Cat Lounge, when the fuel figure has been input, the system has crashed. Secondly, when short turned through LHR, more often than not the next sector fuel figure is sent via the ACARS arrival message.
It's funny isn't it, how every other station on the network seems to be able to cope with a turnround with efficiency in as little as half an hour, yet LHR is where it all comes tumbling down?
Your offensive characterisation of BA 'flight-deck' is noted. If only you knew how much we do every day to save this basket case of an airline.
Go back to your latte and get off our backs.
I'm sorry, but my good nature has run out. (1hr of my life wasted yet again waiting for a bus yesterday)
It's funny isn't it, how every other station on the network seems to be able to cope with a turnround with efficiency in as little as half an hour, yet LHR is where it all comes tumbling down?
Your offensive characterisation of BA 'flight-deck' is noted. If only you knew how much we do every day to save this basket case of an airline.
Go back to your latte and get off our backs.
I'm sorry, but my good nature has run out. (1hr of my life wasted yet again waiting for a bus yesterday)
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LHR_777
As Mick says, the system we use to enter Fuel Figures has gone downhill recently - and often won't accept the figure... and even when it does, who knows if you'll see it?
We have not been informed that this is "important" - after all, until the cutover, we / dispatcher / refueller all meet aircraft side ~STD-35 (SH) and resolved all the issues there, and the diaptcher could do the provisional PDQ.
I for one will aim to be better about "entering" the figures - however, there are numerous reasons why we sometimes cannot, or will need to then alter them.
So, we're told (by our management) NO provisional without either ACARS or FICO fuel, or final fuel from the TRM
We have not been informed that this is "important" - after all, until the cutover, we / dispatcher / refueller all meet aircraft side ~STD-35 (SH) and resolved all the issues there, and the diaptcher could do the provisional PDQ.
I for one will aim to be better about "entering" the figures - however, there are numerous reasons why we sometimes cannot, or will need to then alter them.
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McFloss, it sounds like you are GLA based CC?
If so, i (we) have no issues with you at all! The GLA girls can get a cabin secure before even we are ready! Bloody Perfect!
Its some of our luvvies at LHR who can be so infuriatingly slow. I've seen them chatting in forward galley and even changing shoes! wtf!
If so, i (we) have no issues with you at all! The GLA girls can get a cabin secure before even we are ready! Bloody Perfect!
Its some of our luvvies at LHR who can be so infuriatingly slow. I've seen them chatting in forward galley and even changing shoes! wtf!
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must agree with LHR 777 as a CLC, it is pointless as a TRM in gving a sword or cirrus fuel of say 5000 and innsing a provisional based on this.
The number of years I have been dispatching and issued a provisional on system figures only to find the captain wants return fuel, extra fuel on CPH routes as the system fuel allows almost nil alternate and diversion so fugures end up being nearley 2T higher.
Also weather or long holds you may as well roll two dice to give you a fuel figure! Whatever you use almost certainally ends up being wrong!
The number of years I have been dispatching and issued a provisional on system figures only to find the captain wants return fuel, extra fuel on CPH routes as the system fuel allows almost nil alternate and diversion so fugures end up being nearley 2T higher.
Also weather or long holds you may as well roll two dice to give you a fuel figure! Whatever you use almost certainally ends up being wrong!
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Tsk! Imagine that, flight crew deciding on the best fuel to load in the circumstances. They really think they're in charge of that aircraft, don't they? They'll be signing the tech log and assessing the state of the aircraft yet, and then they'll want to know what the weather's like?
How difficult can it be? It's all just pushing buttons and reading the paper anyway.
Isn't it?
How difficult can it be? It's all just pushing buttons and reading the paper anyway.
Isn't it?
Join Date: Apr 1999
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I don't think anyones complaining about the flight crew deciding the fuel load. They're complaining about not advising anybody of it until just before departure because they were having a coffee with their mate. Thats just p poor performance.