T4 Shambles - 21 May 1400
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Course the other way to crack it is to have a copy of the navlog at crew report and being able to let the despatcher know before you're dragged kicking an screaming from the nice comfy crew room. ooops sorry thats the set up at Not Big Airlines
Also works well when you do leave the crew room on time but there's trouble at t' checkpoint. At least you know there's a chance the plane might be fuelled and ready when you arrive
Also works well when you do leave the crew room on time but there's trouble at t' checkpoint. At least you know there's a chance the plane might be fuelled and ready when you arrive
I've not been on the shorthaul fleet as long as some (or even most!) but I can only think of one occasion in the last two years where we've not sent fuel figures via FICO before leaving CC. I don't dispute that it may happen from time to time and I agree that it is pretty slack behaviour but I can't see that it's a significant cause of late loadsheets.
Junior trash
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And as this thread is discussing the continual late arrival of the FINAL figures by Acars its a bit irrelevant discussing something that happens long before the doors are closed.
Its not unreasonable to expect final figures 10 mins after doors closed surely.
Its not unreasonable to expect final figures 10 mins after doors closed surely.
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There are several occasions, particularly tankering sectors, where I will not finalise fuel until I've had a chance to see what is happening to the ZFW; remember quite often the planned tankering figure is MLW limited. Bitten badly once by this, and had to offload pax with hand-baggage only onto the next flight (no inconvenience to them, we were already delayed by a late inbound and they only arrived about 10 minutes after us.) In those instances fuel required can and often does go down instead of up.
Also with regard to the CIRRUS tankering figure it is in my experience almost always wrong; carrying the exact figure will lead to the next sector having up to 400kg LESS then the CIRRUS planned return figure, mostly due to inaccuracies in the taxi allowance ex-LHR and a burn figure that at my most charitable I will describe as optimistic.
I'm never one to knee-jerk against change, but am seriously struggling to see any benefit to this new system. With an operation of the size and complexity of BA's shorthaul Heathrow set-up having a person at the front end of the departure who could juggle the figures around at the last minute was a godsend.
Also with regard to the CIRRUS tankering figure it is in my experience almost always wrong; carrying the exact figure will lead to the next sector having up to 400kg LESS then the CIRRUS planned return figure, mostly due to inaccuracies in the taxi allowance ex-LHR and a burn figure that at my most charitable I will describe as optimistic.
I'm never one to knee-jerk against change, but am seriously struggling to see any benefit to this new system. With an operation of the size and complexity of BA's shorthaul Heathrow set-up having a person at the front end of the departure who could juggle the figures around at the last minute was a godsend.
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beggy
beggy beggy please somebody from BA issue me a pass for a week and I will come and nosy round the entire system to see what's going on!
I *love* ops research, which is what this is, and I bet in a week of wandering the environs of BA's LHR operation you could find so many left and right hand things going on it would make your eyes water.
With the fuel, I understand how there are savings to be made in not carrying "extra" fuel around, but somebody must work out how much time/effort/cash/customer goodwill/on time departure could be saved by just throwing an extra 5% at it in the planning stage. For the extra $1M/year think how, from the sound of it, slicker the LHR operation would be!
Quite why the management types aren't already doing these teeny tiny improvements makes you wonder? Maybe the LHR station chief should go to an outstation for a week and his/her namesake from the outstation do LHR for the same week? Probably they would both learn a lot!
G
I *love* ops research, which is what this is, and I bet in a week of wandering the environs of BA's LHR operation you could find so many left and right hand things going on it would make your eyes water.
With the fuel, I understand how there are savings to be made in not carrying "extra" fuel around, but somebody must work out how much time/effort/cash/customer goodwill/on time departure could be saved by just throwing an extra 5% at it in the planning stage. For the extra $1M/year think how, from the sound of it, slicker the LHR operation would be!
Quite why the management types aren't already doing these teeny tiny improvements makes you wonder? Maybe the LHR station chief should go to an outstation for a week and his/her namesake from the outstation do LHR for the same week? Probably they would both learn a lot!
G
Last edited by groundbum; 5th Jun 2007 at 17:29. Reason: rubbish speeling
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And of course, to put it in perspective, it would take 175 years of every BA departure carrying 2 tonnes extra fuel to equal the cost of how much we are going to get charged for our superb managers phoning our competitors to decide on how big a fuel surcharge we are going for........
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As ex-BA ground employee it distresses me to see ground and cockpit crew at each others' throats.
What happened to "A Day In The Life" and "To Be The Best"?
Am sure Colin Marshall would have seen this thread and sorted things out.
And on a technical matter - what happened to the flight planning system SWORD?? Was it that bad? I don't think so.
What happened to "A Day In The Life" and "To Be The Best"?
Am sure Colin Marshall would have seen this thread and sorted things out.
And on a technical matter - what happened to the flight planning system SWORD?? Was it that bad? I don't think so.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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DCS - 'Cirrus' shaved a kilo or two (hundred) off figures and someone's bonus went up so out went SWORD.
As SS says, it is VERY common to wait for ZFM before deciding tanks fuel, and in my time there was never a problem in the dispatcher checking with me for the figure before issuing the provisional. Normally the absence of a figure in the computer system prompted the cheery 'visit' to the office to check and rarely caused a problem. I suspect it is the Centralised L C as someone else has said that is the problem. No doubt under-resourced and under-staffed (think 'bonus'
) but just think of all those 'on-time-off-stand' departures.............................
As SS says, it is VERY common to wait for ZFM before deciding tanks fuel, and in my time there was never a problem in the dispatcher checking with me for the figure before issuing the provisional. Normally the absence of a figure in the computer system prompted the cheery 'visit' to the office to check and rarely caused a problem. I suspect it is the Centralised L C as someone else has said that is the problem. No doubt under-resourced and under-staffed (think 'bonus'
) but just think of all those 'on-time-off-stand' departures.............................
The Analog Kid
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With the fuel, I understand how there are savings to be made in not carrying "extra" fuel around, but somebody must work out how much time/effort/cash/customer goodwill/on time departure could be saved by jus throwing an extra 5% at it in the planning stage. For the extra $1M/year think how, from the sound of it, slicker the LHR operation would be!
