kenya airlines 737-800 missing
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“The craft was then flying at an approximate height of 3,000 feet above ground level and steadily gaining height. But the pilot had no clue which way he was heading, the height at which he was flying and its speed,” an official explained.
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Belgique,
The was an apparently similar event in the US last year. The no publicity box appear to have been ticked but we do get wind of such things here at the Towers.
If I remember correctly hud and standby data remained along with the good ole whiskey compass. No news here as to when to expect a public report but that doesn't mean there isn't already information in the public domain.
Regards
Rob
The was an apparently similar event in the US last year. The no publicity box appear to have been ticked but we do get wind of such things here at the Towers.
If I remember correctly hud and standby data remained along with the good ole whiskey compass. No news here as to when to expect a public report but that doesn't mean there isn't already information in the public domain.
Regards
Rob
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Not Just the SFP model having the spoiler disease?
From my reading of this AD, it claims to replace the original emergency AD that cited spoiler actuator problems on 737-800SFP models (i.e. short-field performance variants).... and increases the scope of its model coverage (i.e. beyond the SFP). It was, from the wording of the original emergency AD, then generally assumed that non-SFP aircraft were unaffected by the spoiler glitch. However at the link above we read:
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"SUMMARY: This document publishes in the Federal Register an amendment adopting airworthiness directive (AD) 2007-06-52 that was sent previously to all known U.S. owners and operators of Boeing Model 737-800 series airplanes by individual notices. This AD requires inspecting spoilers to determine spoiler position after every landing and after any rejected takeoffs. For airplanes on which any spoiler is found in the up position with the speedbrake handle in the down position, this AD requires replacement of the flight spoiler actuator with a flight spoiler actuator having a certain part number." etc etc
.
It still says: This AD results from a report of seven flight spoiler actuator jams on Model 737-800 Short Field Performance airplanes. but later explains:
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"Since the unsafe condition described is likely to exist or develop on other airplanes of the same type design, we issued emergency AD 2007-06-52 to detect and correct any spoiler panel that is found in the up position with the speedbrake handle in the down position, which could result in a spoiler actuator hardover, and could cause the spoiler surface to jam in the fully extended position. Two or more hardover failures of the spoiler surfaces in the up direction on the same wing, if undetected prior to takeoff, can cause significant roll and consequent loss of control of the airplane."
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and (perhaps of paramount concern):
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"The takeoff configuration warning will not sound if any flight spoiler remains extended with the speedbrake handle in the DOWN position. The cause of the failure has been identified as interference within the actuator main control valve."
.
This would seem (to me) to infer (via its timing and verbiage) that the problem extends beyond the SFP model and that the spoiler glitch may indeed have been a possible factor in the Douala accident.
.
Agree/disagree?
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"SUMMARY: This document publishes in the Federal Register an amendment adopting airworthiness directive (AD) 2007-06-52 that was sent previously to all known U.S. owners and operators of Boeing Model 737-800 series airplanes by individual notices. This AD requires inspecting spoilers to determine spoiler position after every landing and after any rejected takeoffs. For airplanes on which any spoiler is found in the up position with the speedbrake handle in the down position, this AD requires replacement of the flight spoiler actuator with a flight spoiler actuator having a certain part number." etc etc
.
It still says: This AD results from a report of seven flight spoiler actuator jams on Model 737-800 Short Field Performance airplanes. but later explains:
.
"Since the unsafe condition described is likely to exist or develop on other airplanes of the same type design, we issued emergency AD 2007-06-52 to detect and correct any spoiler panel that is found in the up position with the speedbrake handle in the down position, which could result in a spoiler actuator hardover, and could cause the spoiler surface to jam in the fully extended position. Two or more hardover failures of the spoiler surfaces in the up direction on the same wing, if undetected prior to takeoff, can cause significant roll and consequent loss of control of the airplane."
.
and (perhaps of paramount concern):
.
"The takeoff configuration warning will not sound if any flight spoiler remains extended with the speedbrake handle in the DOWN position. The cause of the failure has been identified as interference within the actuator main control valve."
.
This would seem (to me) to infer (via its timing and verbiage) that the problem extends beyond the SFP model and that the spoiler glitch may indeed have been a possible factor in the Douala accident.
.
Agree/disagree?
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Very provocative, Belgique, but the connection or likelihood of these items seem speculative and tenuous, at best. Do you have more specific information that would tie these possible failure modes to Douala?
If I am following your post, You have cited two seemingly unrelated circumstances ( flight instrumentation faults on departure, spoilers non-retracted after landing ) as if they were connected and possibly causal in regard to Douala. Do you see a tangible link?
Certainly would be the definition of a BAD day to have those two problems while departing, at night, into an intense thunderstorm.
If I am following your post, You have cited two seemingly unrelated circumstances ( flight instrumentation faults on departure, spoilers non-retracted after landing ) as if they were connected and possibly causal in regard to Douala. Do you see a tangible link?
Certainly would be the definition of a BAD day to have those two problems while departing, at night, into an intense thunderstorm.
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Belgique
I have raised this earlier, only to be told that this aircraft was not affected by the AD.
Have they found the CVR - It cannot be beyond retreval, mine the f
er out if necessary!
I have raised this earlier, only to be told that this aircraft was not affected by the AD.
Have they found the CVR - It cannot be beyond retreval, mine the f
er out if necessary!
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Stop over complicating it. Poor weather, new dispalys, reversion under stress to old scans. My money is on disorientation during or after an upset, failure to recover due to lack of time. The same would probably kill any of us.
Time will tell if Im right.
Time will tell if Im right.
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Dogma misses the point (catatonically)
Belgique
I have raised this earlier, only to be told that this aircraft was not affected by the AD.
I have raised this earlier, only to be told that this aircraft was not affected by the AD.
Think the point Belgique is making is that the Emergency AD (-51) was reissued as -52 to cover the fact (as soon as Boeing realized it) that more than the SPF model of the 737-800 was involved.
So if the aircraft did takeoff with a spoiler or two UP (because the takeoff configuration warning would not be activated in this scenario), then it's conceivable that around about 30 secs after takeoff (the actual scenario) roll control would have been lost (or at least a huge factor as the airplane accelerated to climb speed).
.
Can't see the error in that logic.
What would the FDR show?
If the condition covered by the AD-52 mentioned above did occur i.e. handle down, spoiler up what would the FDR show? Does it record spoiler position, handle position or both?
Just curious, not making any assumptions.
20driver
Just curious, not making any assumptions.
20driver
CVR Found
From the AP 16/6/07
A search team has found the cockpit voice recorder of a Kenya Airways plane that crashed in Cameroon last month, killing 114 people, the airline's chief executive officer says.
The voice recorder was found on Friday afternoon and Cameroonian authorities are now making arrangements to get it to Canada as soon as possible, Kenya Airways CEO Titus Naikuni said in a brief statement.
When it is analysed, the voice recorder is expected to reveal the final exchanges between the plane's captain and his co-pilot and also any conversations with the control tower in Cameroon's commercial capital of Douala.
The Kenya Airways flight nose-dived into a swamp in the West African country less than two minutes after taking off from Douala on a stormy night on May 5. The Boeing 737-800 had been bound for Kenya.
The plane's data recorder was found last month and taken to Canada for analysis. A preliminary review showed no evidence of a mechanical malfunction, the Cameroon Civil Aviation Authority said in a statement posted on its web site.
The authority said a full report of what led to the crash will take as long as a year.
The preliminary investigation found that all crew members were sufficiently trained and certified according to expected aviation guidelines, the statement said
The voice recorder was found on Friday afternoon and Cameroonian authorities are now making arrangements to get it to Canada as soon as possible, Kenya Airways CEO Titus Naikuni said in a brief statement.
When it is analysed, the voice recorder is expected to reveal the final exchanges between the plane's captain and his co-pilot and also any conversations with the control tower in Cameroon's commercial capital of Douala.
The Kenya Airways flight nose-dived into a swamp in the West African country less than two minutes after taking off from Douala on a stormy night on May 5. The Boeing 737-800 had been bound for Kenya.
The plane's data recorder was found last month and taken to Canada for analysis. A preliminary review showed no evidence of a mechanical malfunction, the Cameroon Civil Aviation Authority said in a statement posted on its web site.
The authority said a full report of what led to the crash will take as long as a year.
The preliminary investigation found that all crew members were sufficiently trained and certified according to expected aviation guidelines, the statement said
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People are adding 2 and 2 and getting 5. Lets wait for a formal investigation and subsequent outcome. The 800 has a couple of weak areas but overall it is an astonishing aeroplane. I, (as someone who drives one nearly daily), await with eager anticipation the outcome. I don't think it is helpful to try and make various ad's and previous incidents fit this one. At this stage who the hell knows? Maybe a bee flew in and stung them both to death.
I'm ready to be shot down, go ahead.
I'm ready to be shot down, go ahead.
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A few kilometers from crash site?
I'm kind of puzzled that the CVR was found "a few kilometers from the crash site". I thought that the black boxes were a pretty integral part of the plane, so how did the CVR detach itself so far from the actual crash site? Unless some local picked it up as a trophy? Very strange ...
South African Sunday Times 17 June 2007:
The cockpit voice recorder (CVR) was located a week ago in the marshy area around the village of Mbanga-Pongo, a few kilometres from Douala, where the Boeing 737 came down on the night of May 4.
South African Sunday Times 17 June 2007:
The cockpit voice recorder (CVR) was located a week ago in the marshy area around the village of Mbanga-Pongo, a few kilometres from Douala, where the Boeing 737 came down on the night of May 4.
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There will, as always, be a ton of crud to trawl through for the nuggets of informed and expert relevence that are contributed in threads like these. Having followed a few it has always been apparent is that yes, there is a lot of speculation, however there is also much that can be learned from informed contributions. Particularly as the facts sadly do take months, sometimes years to come out.
The fact that people died is a tragedy. Kenya runs a very professional operation but the sad fact is that even in the best no matter who, crew mistakes can and do happen, and malfunctions can and do happen even to the newest and best maintained equipment.
It is frustrating that in Africa things happen a bit slower but vital boxes have been found and hopefully at some stage information will be processed and the causes pinned down.
The fact that people died is a tragedy. Kenya runs a very professional operation but the sad fact is that even in the best no matter who, crew mistakes can and do happen, and malfunctions can and do happen even to the newest and best maintained equipment.
It is frustrating that in Africa things happen a bit slower but vital boxes have been found and hopefully at some stage information will be processed and the causes pinned down.
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Feline,
If your post was based on the item you quoted from the South African Sunday Times, I think you just misread the phrase.
I read it as:
"The cockpit voice recorder (CVR) was located a week ago in the marshy area around the village of Mbanga-Pongo, where the Boeing 737 came down on the night of May 4. The crash site is a few kilometres from Douala, from where the aircraft took off."
If your post was based on the item you quoted from the South African Sunday Times, I think you just misread the phrase.
I read it as:
"The cockpit voice recorder (CVR) was located a week ago in the marshy area around the village of Mbanga-Pongo, where the Boeing 737 came down on the night of May 4. The crash site is a few kilometres from Douala, from where the aircraft took off."
Last edited by ChristiaanJ; 17th Jun 2007 at 12:02. Reason: punctuation
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Quote: "All this crap about vested interests and dithering of data is just news fodder for public sale of newspapers"
Well Lomopaseo, just shows how little you know about Africans and the complex relationships on the continent.
Well Lomopaseo, just shows how little you know about Africans and the complex relationships on the continent.
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The Cockpit Voice Recorder of the Kenya Airways flight that crashed in Douala, Cameroon, has been recovered.
Kenya Airways chief executive officer, Mr Titus Naikuni, said the gadget was recovered on Friday by the search team that has been at the site since accident occurred one month ago.
"The Cameroonian authorities are making arrangements to get the CVR transferred to Canada," he said, in a statement.
The KQ management has already announced plans to compensate the victims.
Investigation into the incident is still ongoing.
The six-month old Boeing 737-800 crashed close to Douala airport shortly after taking off for Nairobi in stormy weather at around midnight on May 4-5 killing 114 people on board. Much of the aircraft broke into fragments little bigger than a car door.
Rescuers had already retrieved a first "black box", the in-flight data recorder, but the voice recorder should contain the last minutes of conversation between the pilot and co-pilot and is expected to help determine the cause of the crash.
Efforts to retrieve it had been hampered by heavy rains, which constantly refilled craters emptied by rescue workers, turning the site into a quagmire.
It took nearly two days to locate the plane’s wreckage after fruitless searches in the tropical forest, which Cameroonian officials have blamed on misleading information from a French satellite station.
The central African country’s civil aviation chief said the pilot took off in stormy weather.
Kenya Airways chief executive officer, Mr Titus Naikuni, said the gadget was recovered on Friday by the search team that has been at the site since accident occurred one month ago.
"The Cameroonian authorities are making arrangements to get the CVR transferred to Canada," he said, in a statement.
The KQ management has already announced plans to compensate the victims.
Investigation into the incident is still ongoing.
The six-month old Boeing 737-800 crashed close to Douala airport shortly after taking off for Nairobi in stormy weather at around midnight on May 4-5 killing 114 people on board. Much of the aircraft broke into fragments little bigger than a car door.
Rescuers had already retrieved a first "black box", the in-flight data recorder, but the voice recorder should contain the last minutes of conversation between the pilot and co-pilot and is expected to help determine the cause of the crash.
Efforts to retrieve it had been hampered by heavy rains, which constantly refilled craters emptied by rescue workers, turning the site into a quagmire.
It took nearly two days to locate the plane’s wreckage after fruitless searches in the tropical forest, which Cameroonian officials have blamed on misleading information from a French satellite station.
The central African country’s civil aviation chief said the pilot took off in stormy weather.
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I would not anticipate any information out of Canada until their findings are completed, or unless there is something CONFIRMED FLAWED with the airplane. They normally do not release any CVR info prior to final reports.
It will be a while before any info is forthcoming.
It will be a while before any info is forthcoming.