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Thomson A/C In flight shutdown

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Thomson A/C In flight shutdown

Old 30th Apr 2007, 09:56
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Nude Vicar in Sex Drugs Orgy

Two stirring quotes from BBC website this morning!
"The pilot shut the engine down and sent out a distress call before dumping excess fuel and landing back at the airport." (This 757 must be fitted with a fuel dump facility!)
And:
"Although the aircraft is designed to fly on one engine in an emergency the pilot felt the damage should be checked out."
Cutting edge journalism!
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Old 30th Apr 2007, 11:01
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As mere SLF, hats off to the crew.

I'm sure their's weren't the only sphincters working overtime!
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Old 30th Apr 2007, 11:08
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Well done to the crew

Press are reporting they dumped fuel, I wasn't aware that the 757 was fitted with a jettison system?
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Old 30th Apr 2007, 11:17
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Protected

Arent Herons protected, those boys could be in trouble with the authorities
Well done though chaps...
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Old 30th Apr 2007, 11:29
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Correct me if I'm wrong but from the footage I reckon the flames were due to a compressor stall, due to the bird ingestion, rather than a fire. Not that it matters that much with regards to the great job done by the crew!
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Old 30th Apr 2007, 12:33
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Quote from the Beeb website...
Although the aircraft is designed to fly on one engine in an emergency the pilot felt the damage should be checked out.

...for a flight on the way to Lanzarote....there's a bloomin' understatement!!
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Old 30th Apr 2007, 12:37
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Well done to the guys and girls invloved with this incident.

A request to the Mods however, Could we change the name of the Thread to reflect the actual airline involved?

It is all very well us berating the Journos for making mistakes but Stones and Glass houses spring to mind.
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Old 30th Apr 2007, 12:38
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ITN last night showed film from the other side and a tape of the R/T exchanges. That is illegal guys, (not the film the sound recording) hope the CAA get on to them.
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Old 30th Apr 2007, 12:40
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Flaming Herons

I should stay away from herons if you have any matches. Health and safety and all that - watch your eyebrows. That's after the Airport Spokesman stating that it was the herons burning.
The video to me looks as though the engine was surging as the core airflow broke down and then restored itself. Hence the pulse effect. That would have made some interesting sensations in the cabin, between noise and loss of thrust (and its momentary restoration. In surge conditions, flames may also come out of the front of the engine, due to the pressure in the combustor being "unopposed" by the compressor. The cause of this was likely to be the birds' bodies damaging the compressor airfoils and making them less-than-ideal for their purpose. A surge is a major compressor event where the airflow breaks down throughout the compressor, as opposed to a stall, which is either part of a compressor stage stalling, or a stage having passing instability.
I imagine that the fan was also seriously damaged, causing imbalances which in turn caused rubs between blades and the engine case. This can also make a fair number of sparks and flames, depending on the materials involved. Videos of blade-off and bird ingestion tests can be found on some of the engine manufacturers' websites. The after-effects are "interesting".
When the RB211-535 E4 was being quailified/certified, I believe that the birdstrike tests involved, separately, being able to take a large number of sparrows at take-off thrust, 8x 1.5 lb ducklings, and 1 bird at something like 5-8 lbs (I can't remember exactly). At that time (mid-80s), the most difficult test was the duckling ingestion. I believe, too, that the requirement was then for the engine to be able to run at 75% thrust for 45 mins which is supposed to be enough to burn off enough fuel to land again safely. Running at 75% thrust could still be with an engine with fairly high levels of damage-induced vibration.
In this case, 2 birds of this size are a major event. Thank heavens for 2 engines! Great job by all concerned, and well done!
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Old 30th Apr 2007, 12:48
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Great video and hats off to the crew .

Not a situation i would fancy being in! Im sure being in a aircraft thats as overpowered as the 757 was a big bonus on this this occasion!

Same thing happend a few yrs back while i was working at STN. FR 732 sucked a bird into engine 2 on rotate from rwy 05. Pulses of flames, loads of smoke and load bangs accompanying the flames as it tried to climb. Made a safe return on 1 engine. I was on the adjacent taxiway when it happened so had a great view of it, not something i wish to see again anytime soon though.

Regards.

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Old 30th Apr 2007, 13:28
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Budgie69 - Hahahaha! Thats typical news writers! I just read on flightglobal.com (and they are supposed to be aviation experts!!!) "and the pilot landed safely.....etc" - I did not know that Thomson operates 757 single crew!!! Wow, gotto go and tell AH, this has gotto be possible to implement in the Orange Bubble too!!! Im looking fwd to a MASSIVE bonus for comming up with this cost saving ops procedure!!


/CP
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Old 30th Apr 2007, 13:57
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ITN report can be seen on liveleak.com

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=334_1177927117
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Old 30th Apr 2007, 14:25
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The fire and the smoke out the tail pipe were nothing more than an engine surging no doubt brought on by the bird ingestion into the engine.

the symptoms to the pilot would be a bang, rising EGT and dancing RPMs rolling off. Well within the expected pilot training sylabus.
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Old 30th Apr 2007, 14:46
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Well done the cabin crew and all the people on the ground involved.

The Mayday RT sounded very CAP413, very professional.

Let's hope that the passengers were kept informed and kept calm, and that the experience won't spoil their holidays.

Why did the aircraft need to fly around to burn off fuel, would it have been too heavy to have landed at EGCC otherwise? At least he got to book another hour in the logbook

Well done all.

As for the herons, well poor blighters. They must have been spotted by somebody to have identified them.
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Old 30th Apr 2007, 14:52
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Conservation or Safety?

As required by the planning authorities EGCC has numerous ponds around its perimeter due to the need to preserve the Great Crested Newt. Clearly these ponds are also magnets for Herons and Geese. Where ponds also lie on private land adjacent the airfield and when protected species are involved (like Herons), Airfield Ops are restricted in their ability to clear the area of any birds that might pose a hazard.


I canít help feeling that there is an important point here somewhere which is being overlooked. ,........Conservation or aircraft safety?
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Old 30th Apr 2007, 15:20
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Actually, the birds were living there before the airport was even thought of, NIMBA (Not In My Back Aviary).
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Old 30th Apr 2007, 17:40
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I was fortunate to view this incident as live just north of 24R/06L centre line, must have been very scary for those on-board. I was just straightening living room curtains when noted several extremely loud bangs which sounded like a large dumper truck full of stone on speed bumps. I realised this was the engine surging as I had seen this on Discovery channel when they first tested the GE engines for the 777 on the 747 test bed. Pilot(s) levelled out immediately at about 1500' and it was very noticeable that thrust had been increased on Port RB211.
An immediate shallow left turn was initiated.
Glad everything worked out fine.
Incident handled very profesionally by all of the team on board.
Funnily I have noted several Herons recently in the area.....
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Old 30th Apr 2007, 17:53
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Why did the aircraft need to fly around to burn off fuel, would it have been too heavy to have landed at EGCC otherwise? At least he got to book another hour in the logbook
The 757 (take note BBC!) does not have a fuel dump system. They have various weight limits depending on the model but a typical MTOM is 113 tonnes and MLM 90 tonnes. you can, in an emergency, land at anything up to MTOM, but that requires an 'overwieight landing' engineering check afterwards which would take the aircraft off the line for some time, so its not somethign you want to do unless you have to (on fire, smoke in cabin etc). However as this aircraft is gonna need to go in the shed for a new engine anyway I can't see that as a consideration.
For a flight to Lanzarote a typical actual TOM would be 95 - 100 tonnes. so not too much to burn down to Max Landing Mass.
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Old 30th Apr 2007, 18:22
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Herons are no pigeons and to ingest 2 in one engine on rotate must have concentrated minds and relaxed sphincters all round.
At least they had the decency to both fly into the same engine, one down each could have been even more interesting.
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Old 30th Apr 2007, 18:36
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As we are all saying, great job by the pilots as we would all expect from UK flight crews.

Would I have come back and landed over weight or flown around burning fuel down to MLW? Never know what's happened to the good donk! I got some time on the B757 and it's a great jet, but would i hang around at low level on one engine? Anyway It's your call on the day.

Safe and happy flying to all.

(See you at Man tomorrow around 12:25 when I bring in the "Queen of the skies")
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