Pax cockpit access - are there rules?
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: United Kingdom
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Thanks gengis.
Thanks for the explanation, at least now we can agree that a concerned passenger is not a threat. Good to see we can also agree communication is better than telling people to shut up!
With ref national requirements, well, if a country wishes to ignore ICAO and IATA, I suppose that's up to them. (I would imagine, however, that "in the subsequent inquiry" a Litigator would earn his crust enquiring why an operator and a Captain did not follow established "best practice". Equally, that 'get out' would not apply to an American or a JAR carrier, any more than the requirements which came out of the BA multiple deaths at the Manchester fire. Are you suggesting that because they might not be part of a National Authority's requirement that those requirements were therefore un-necessary or ridiculous also?
I would never dispute whether in the final analysis things are the Captain's call, however I remain unconvinced that three extra people on the Flight Deck of a Boeing 737 apart from the operating crew, (none of the extra people apparently in a j/s and using the excuse that one of them, [an unqualified aviation manager] was there in an official capacity) is anything but a hazard to Flight Safety. I suggest you refer to the AFM and the max Flight Deck occupancy section if you doubt me. This is just another step on the road to the Aeroflot Captain's son at the controls - clearly the Captain used his judgement and was:
on that occasion too. Tell me, did that make him right?
With ref national requirements, well, if a country wishes to ignore ICAO and IATA, I suppose that's up to them. (I would imagine, however, that "in the subsequent inquiry" a Litigator would earn his crust enquiring why an operator and a Captain did not follow established "best practice". Equally, that 'get out' would not apply to an American or a JAR carrier, any more than the requirements which came out of the BA multiple deaths at the Manchester fire. Are you suggesting that because they might not be part of a National Authority's requirement that those requirements were therefore un-necessary or ridiculous also?
I would never dispute whether in the final analysis things are the Captain's call, however I remain unconvinced that three extra people on the Flight Deck of a Boeing 737 apart from the operating crew, (none of the extra people apparently in a j/s and using the excuse that one of them, [an unqualified aviation manager] was there in an official capacity) is anything but a hazard to Flight Safety. I suggest you refer to the AFM and the max Flight Deck occupancy section if you doubt me. This is just another step on the road to the Aeroflot Captain's son at the controls - clearly the Captain used his judgement and was:
DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for, and the FINAL AUTHORITY as to, the operation of the airplane
Last edited by Kurtz; 28th Apr 2007 at 12:23.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pakistan
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tricky issue. a lot of factors determine whether this should really be an issue or not. i ll jump straight to my experiences here in pakistan. getting into the cockpit is very easy ONLY if you are a cockpit crew ( doesnt matter if you are OFF DUTY) or you know the operating crew personally. but but if you arent either one of them, the probability of getting in is around 5-10 %( my own statistics over a period of around 2 years of frequent flying and as many requests for a cockpit visit ).
here according to the company rule, cockpit visits have been banned for all. but people get in regardless. so they are violating. but the law is not for every one. i mean either every should be allowed to visit or nobody. so there is a bit of law-breaking going on here. therefore, the chaps in the western countries are far more professional in keeping the company rules intact and i think they must be appreciated. if the book says No. its No. For every one.
i personally agree with a lot of posters here that cockpit visits are a source of inspiration for the young. i , myself, got into this field just because of a merely "simple " ( at that time ) cockpit visit that later turned out to become my passion. so its a source of inspiration. why ? because i think its a relatively uncommon field. every one can drive a car. few can fly. you defy gravity. may be i am wrong. but i think they should have never become so difficult as they have these days.
here according to the company rule, cockpit visits have been banned for all. but people get in regardless. so they are violating. but the law is not for every one. i mean either every should be allowed to visit or nobody. so there is a bit of law-breaking going on here. therefore, the chaps in the western countries are far more professional in keeping the company rules intact and i think they must be appreciated. if the book says No. its No. For every one.
i personally agree with a lot of posters here that cockpit visits are a source of inspiration for the young. i , myself, got into this field just because of a merely "simple " ( at that time ) cockpit visit that later turned out to become my passion. so its a source of inspiration. why ? because i think its a relatively uncommon field. every one can drive a car. few can fly. you defy gravity. may be i am wrong. but i think they should have never become so difficult as they have these days.
