Urgent:all Pilots In/out Lhr/lgw
Ut Sementem Feeceris
With all the work done to PREVENT runway incursions in the last few years, it is curious as to why BA (alledgedly) want to remove this excellent system. What do they think they will "gain" by its removal - more time at the hold for T/O or parking.......... 
A4
A4
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I agree that it is an excellent system, and have enjoyed using for close on 18 years now, but we must be open enough to review options.
That doesn't mean that the lack of an operator should spell disaster though. A series of fixed green and ambers at crossing points for caution and reds for runway entry points would be sufficient. Cross amber with caution, obey all reds.
That would work just as well, as it does virtually everywhere else around the world. The size of LHR is I believe a red herring - the complexity of JFK is equally great (not that I'm suggesting stooping to that level!).
The analogy is to the continent where after the evening rush hour the traffic lights are changed to flashing amber to advise caution - why can't the nanny UK state adopt that principle - quite often when the lights fail, the traffic does a better job itself anyway.
I would rather you pushed for leaving the stand guidance on permanently to allow us to park without blocking taxiways than keeping the red/greens switcheable.
Do you remember the fuss when they got rid of all the Block numbers at LHR? Who misses them now - anyone 'fess up to that? Not me.
That doesn't mean that the lack of an operator should spell disaster though. A series of fixed green and ambers at crossing points for caution and reds for runway entry points would be sufficient. Cross amber with caution, obey all reds.
That would work just as well, as it does virtually everywhere else around the world. The size of LHR is I believe a red herring - the complexity of JFK is equally great (not that I'm suggesting stooping to that level!).
The analogy is to the continent where after the evening rush hour the traffic lights are changed to flashing amber to advise caution - why can't the nanny UK state adopt that principle - quite often when the lights fail, the traffic does a better job itself anyway.
I would rather you pushed for leaving the stand guidance on permanently to allow us to park without blocking taxiways than keeping the red/greens switcheable.
Do you remember the fuss when they got rid of all the Block numbers at LHR? Who misses them now - anyone 'fess up to that? Not me.
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It's a shame that we (ATC) might not get much input into the decision. It's BAA's airport at the end of the day, and if they decide to get rid of the AGLCS then they will get rid of the AGLCS. I'm sure our people will be attempting to convince BAA that it's not a good idea. Especially given that the recent 'customer service' questionnaire that came back from LHR airlines cited the AGLCS as one of the top positives of the ATC experience at LHR.
The L/Op is a necessary and vital part of the ATC team at LHR, even during the day. Even more so in our new tower with our new electronic strip system. If I'm asked to do GMC with no L/Op in the new tower during the day, I'll be demanding greater inbound spacing.
The L/Op is a necessary and vital part of the ATC team at LHR, even during the day. Even more so in our new tower with our new electronic strip system. If I'm asked to do GMC with no L/Op in the new tower during the day, I'll be demanding greater inbound spacing.
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I absolutely agree it works great and please don't change.I was in LHR last night and that was the first time for a couple months.After vacated 9R found myself challenging with the chart to find my way how to join Twy B then realized the greens lighting up my way through the parking pos.
It is really effective no unnecessary R/T and no risk of being lost or misinrpretetion of the charts.
It is really effective no unnecessary R/T and no risk of being lost or misinrpretetion of the charts.
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Top Bunk,
I only miss the blocks on the odd occasion; it does cut down on the flexibility of holding a/c in some situations, and also when describing a location to the emergency services in an emergency.
WRT Stand guidance, we've been pushing for permanent guidance for years, believe me.
I only miss the blocks on the odd occasion; it does cut down on the flexibility of holding a/c in some situations, and also when describing a location to the emergency services in an emergency.
WRT Stand guidance, we've been pushing for permanent guidance for years, believe me.
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I recall landing at SIN years ago: "Welcome to Singapore. Follow the greens to your stand." Fantastic.
Although it's not obvious to the casual observer, taxying around a large and complex airport is one of the more challenging things we do, especially if it's not your home base. Anything that makes it easier and safer should remain.
It will be a brave person at BAA who in this day and age takes a step that so obviously downgrades safety. At the subsequent board of enquiry etc etc...
Keep it.
Although it's not obvious to the casual observer, taxying around a large and complex airport is one of the more challenging things we do, especially if it's not your home base. Anything that makes it easier and safer should remain.
It will be a brave person at BAA who in this day and age takes a step that so obviously downgrades safety. At the subsequent board of enquiry etc etc...
Keep it.
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Gonzo old chap,
Where is this customer service ATC survey to be found? It would be interesting to look at.
I like it Bernoulli/Coolkiller!
More comments please chaps/ladies
Where is this customer service ATC survey to be found? It would be interesting to look at.
I like it Bernoulli/Coolkiller!
More comments please chaps/ladies
Last edited by autothrottle; 16th Apr 2007 at 10:54.
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Always liked the system when operating out of LHR & LGW, it should be standard fit at all major airports. It has also impressed many a jump seat pax in the good old days. If it aint broke dont tinker with it. 
aka Capt PPRuNe
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The best way to secure the option of keeping the AGLCS is to use the "green" word. I agree that it is a fantastic system that enhances safety at busy complex airports.
With todays apparent need by many managers to be seen to be doing what is fashionable rather than what is prudent, just mention that they will be saving the world from extintion because the AGLCS only uses the lights it needs. Must save X tonnes of CO2 a year. Never mind the other X tonnes of fuel saved and emissions not produced because of the more expeditious taxiing times thanks to the system.
Perhaps we should be told who is the person responsible and his or her job title, that wants to raise the issue with BAA.
With todays apparent need by many managers to be seen to be doing what is fashionable rather than what is prudent, just mention that they will be saving the world from extintion because the AGLCS only uses the lights it needs. Must save X tonnes of CO2 a year. Never mind the other X tonnes of fuel saved and emissions not produced because of the more expeditious taxiing times thanks to the system.
Perhaps we should be told who is the person responsible and his or her job title, that wants to raise the issue with BAA.
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Danny,
Interesting point, with the present system only 65-70% of AGL can be on all at once because of the loads on CCR and resistors. If you have all of them on at once it uses 30% more electricity...not good in these days of environmental responsibility!
Interesting point, with the present system only 65-70% of AGL can be on all at once because of the loads on CCR and resistors. If you have all of them on at once it uses 30% more electricity...not good in these days of environmental responsibility!
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I have operated out of LGW for over 10 years. The guidance system is superb and should not be removed. Even though I am very familiar with the airfield, I find the system of 'Follow the greens' much easier and less challenging. I believe it has a significant influence on safety. I, like a previous poster, find the system at MAN confusing at times and have often had to ask for instructions to be clarified.
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Just to add my support to LHR retaining it's excellent system of taxiway lighting.
It is by far the best system I have seen and used. Whoever is questioning it should be banished to MAN or somewhere equally confusing for a day! They will subsequently become lost and we won't have to worry about them and their interfering ways for a long time!!!!
It is by far the best system I have seen and used. Whoever is questioning it should be banished to MAN or somewhere equally confusing for a day! They will subsequently become lost and we won't have to worry about them and their interfering ways for a long time!!!!
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This thread is an April Fool's joke, right?
The 'greens' taxiway system at Heathrow, Gatwick and Singapore is the best thing since sliced bread. For the life of me, I can't understand why ICAO hasn't made it mandatory in any new airport.
I was once told it's installed at the new HKG, but not used for some reason. Can anyone confirm or deny that?
The 'greens' taxiway system at Heathrow, Gatwick and Singapore is the best thing since sliced bread. For the life of me, I can't understand why ICAO hasn't made it mandatory in any new airport.
I was once told it's installed at the new HKG, but not used for some reason. Can anyone confirm or deny that?
It's a bloody brilliant system and saves everyone a lot of brainpower after landing in crap vis having done a 14hr sector back of the clock.
And Wiley I heard the same thing about HKG, also makes me wonder why the new airport at Bangkok didn't get one either - it needs a system like that big time!
And Wiley I heard the same thing about HKG, also makes me wonder why the new airport at Bangkok didn't get one either - it needs a system like that big time!
17 years of using the greens at LHR, there's nothing to beat it. Discontinue the system and you get more r/t and more time spent with eyes in looking at taxy/parking charts instead of outside looking for hazards.
TopBunk
I regret that I cannot support you on that one. Red Cap/Dispatcher/whoever should only switch on the guidance when they have ensured that the stand is clear. In that confined space (especially at night) I like the belt to go with my braces.
YS
TopBunk
I would rather you pushed for leaving the stand guidance on permanently to allow us to park without blocking taxiways than keeping the red/greens switcheable.
YS
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Slight thread divergence, but to back up Yellow Sun, I understand it is outwith BAA rules to leave stand guidance on. It is the internal airline workings that need to be 'left on'