EL AL accident at CDG?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: STN
Posts: 258
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EL AL accident at CDG?
El Al plane delayed in Paris following accident in runway
Published: 04.13.07, 13:39 / Israel News
An El Al flight from Paris to Tel Aviv has been delayed due to an accident. An initial investigation revealed that the plane crashed into a vehicle on the runway.
There were no reports of injures.
Runway or ramp
Published: 04.13.07, 13:39 / Israel News
An El Al flight from Paris to Tel Aviv has been delayed due to an accident. An initial investigation revealed that the plane crashed into a vehicle on the runway.
There were no reports of injures.
Runway or ramp
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Sun, water, and lots of sand
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
El Al 747-400 decided to see how far he could push the tug and tow bar, whilst it was all still connected to the aircraft, after push back. He started engines and decided it was time to taxi, probably without consulting the ground crew. El Al taxied about about 40 metres when the ground crew scrambled for their lives. I believe the tug dissapeared towards the right, still connected, jack knived into engine 3, the engine is very torn up underneith.
Eisch!
Eisch!
Last edited by sidestick driver; 14th Apr 2007 at 10:40. Reason: add link to picture
A wise captain taught me never to do the after start check list until the ground crew had given us the all clear signal...
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In a far better place
Posts: 2,480
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Usually all wise captains and wise first officers, with the exception of those few who choose to go into business for themselves, follow their companys' SOPs... thus not accomplishing the after start check list until hand signals are received by the ground crew. This includes the observance of the nose wheel steering by-pass pin when appropriate.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: East of Monkey Island!
Age: 49
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unfortunately not all airlines are wise enough to have this SOP. Then at the companies that do, there are those skygods who do not need to adhere to this obviously petty rule.
Watching some crews pushback and taxi, I wonder if I am at an airfield or in the pitlane at Monza!
Watching some crews pushback and taxi, I wonder if I am at an airfield or in the pitlane at Monza!
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The Burrow, N53:48:02 W1:48:57, The Tin Tent - EGBS, EGBO
Posts: 2,297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the engine is very torn up underneith.
It's good to know they managed to get out in time. 
It was a silly mistake but crew dont get to drive heavy metal like that without lots of experience
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Egcc
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does the 1000 hour co-pilot taxi the aircraft? But I agree it can contribute to the captains stresses and distractions.
PP
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: world
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Very surprised this happen ! Didn't the crew felt anything while starting to taxi. With the truck still connected, this would request more power than usual, or maybe the truck was already disconnected but not yet left !
A B744, not at a very high gross weight, doesn't need power more than idle to start taxi. I rarely use power to start taxi on the B744, make so more safety behind, and in this case, it would in front for the ground staff and the material.
A B744, not at a very high gross weight, doesn't need power more than idle to start taxi. I rarely use power to start taxi on the B744, make so more safety behind, and in this case, it would in front for the ground staff and the material.
According to the French forum, the tug disconnected and the marshaller connected with the headset told the crew so. At that moment, the crew spooled up the engines quite severely and started rolling, sending all personel on the ground scrambling away to save themselves. The guy at the headset was still connected, so the all clear had definitly not been given.
Same thing did happen to me many moons ago as a load controller at ZRH with a DC8. Thankfully the tug was already out of the trajectory and all I had to do once ATC told the guy to stop is to go retrieve my headset which had been ripped of my head. They later told me they had not heard me shouting at them to stop....
The same message also sais that it was to be the last flight of the commander before retirement and they had a huge party of honor waiting at TLV to meet the plane. What a pity to end a career like this!
Same thing did happen to me many moons ago as a load controller at ZRH with a DC8. Thankfully the tug was already out of the trajectory and all I had to do once ATC told the guy to stop is to go retrieve my headset which had been ripped of my head. They later told me they had not heard me shouting at them to stop....
The same message also sais that it was to be the last flight of the commander before retirement and they had a huge party of honor waiting at TLV to meet the plane. What a pity to end a career like this!
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Azerbaijan-Switzerland-South Africa
Age: 81
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For decades we have use wheel hubs with integrated hydraulic motors on mobile cranes and on self-propelled heavy platform trailers.
Would the cost of thousands of pushers and their crew all over the world not warrant the development of a pilot-operated front wheel hub with an integrated hydraulic drive motor ? level ground - short distance.
Would the cost of thousands of pushers and their crew all over the world not warrant the development of a pilot-operated front wheel hub with an integrated hydraulic drive motor ? level ground - short distance.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: France
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In 20 years as an Engineer I have had crew taxi on me twice and both apologised as soon as I talked to them on the headset, very embaressed and I doubt they would do it again so no need to take it further. I have also had to investigate 2 instances after getting to a more senior position, and found the airlines concearned take it very seriously.
My experience of CDG is that ElAl have their own maint who are the on headset for the pushback so cant see a language issue here.
As a side note though the GHA staff at CDG do not use standard hand signals on pushbacks and never seam to position a wing man. I was always very wary with certain GHA companies there.
One downside in the drive towards towbarless tractors is that GHAs will now only send the truck and driver, so when disconecting the truck I am distracted ensuring my headset cord does not get caught up in the truck and also have had to guide a driver away from the Aircraft when the ruck was close to the nose wheels. Basic stuff I know but mistakes at this time are just as dangerous as any other.
Let ElAl do the investigation before anyone gets blamed, crew may have messed up, A/C may have had a park brake fault, ground crew may have not followed procs we dont know
My experience of CDG is that ElAl have their own maint who are the on headset for the pushback so cant see a language issue here.
As a side note though the GHA staff at CDG do not use standard hand signals on pushbacks and never seam to position a wing man. I was always very wary with certain GHA companies there.
One downside in the drive towards towbarless tractors is that GHAs will now only send the truck and driver, so when disconecting the truck I am distracted ensuring my headset cord does not get caught up in the truck and also have had to guide a driver away from the Aircraft when the ruck was close to the nose wheels. Basic stuff I know but mistakes at this time are just as dangerous as any other.
Let ElAl do the investigation before anyone gets blamed, crew may have messed up, A/C may have had a park brake fault, ground crew may have not followed procs we dont know
