Atlantic L188 3 eng emergency at STN

[Daysleeper]

Every time something happens the cry goes up - Bring back the FE-the electra was "built" for 3 and so on--, As far as the electra goes the role is dead and has been for a long time, live with it and move on.

Meanwhile we are still trying to find out what actually happened - did it indeed shut down 3 of 4 engines or is this simply a case of miscommunication and in fact all that happened was the falange broke?

[JW411]

I know not a lot about the prop system on the Electra but what I do know is that my old company hired a lot of ex-Atlantic pilots from the DC-3 right up to the L-188.
Without exception, they were all bl**dy good aviators and all of them, without exception, went on to have good careers in aviation. Most of them are now TRI/TREs for major airlines.
If my arse was ever on fire, I would like to have a product of Coventry sitting beside me!

[Casper]

Ah, the Electra "bomber." Four (air) screws beat two blow jobs any day! And the plumber was worth his weight in gold, especially when the props did not behave.

[ABUKABOY]

Just had 5 years of nights with a 3rd pair of eyes behind, young and old, and its definitely the way to operate when the fan is flinging, or you're losing the fatigue-fight. Having said that, those who disagree have probably never had the opportunity to work with a maestro of the panel whose tech knowledge of the aircraft always puts your own to shame.
As for JW411, couldn't agree more. Coventry has produced some of the youngest mature masters of their art you will ever meet, and I've flown with many of them in their subsequent careers. Forget all the psychometric babbledegook; if a guy has Atlantique or Atlantic in his CV, you should hire him.......simple as that. He has probably already been to corners of the professional aviating envelope his interviewers have only ever read about.
I've no side to this, just speak as I find!

[airsupport]

Obviously not an ideal situation.

However, IF you are going to do it, the olde faithful Electra would be the aircraft to do it with.

We used to ferry them around on 3 engines all the time, and of course the military version (Orion) flies around all day on only 2.

[Flight Detent]

Hey, 'lordsummerisle' what silly, uninformed comments you make!!

As far as pitchlock is concerned, it depends at what blade angle the pitchlock occurs. The SHP can be quite high at p'lock, forcing the shutdown of the engine at quite high airspeed, because as we all know, with a p'locked prop, when the TAS decreases, the SHP increases, and will exceed max limits during the descent if not canned.
Also, the L188 does not have pitchlock reset capability, or an negative torque switch protection system to protect in the case of a prop control malfunction during air restart, so airstarts are rare.

Operating this airplane without a flight engineer is madness!

So there, I've said it!

Cheers, and good luck Atlantic pilots, and anybody else operating a two-crew L-188.

FD

[gulfairs]

Pitch lock usually occurs because of an oil problem, but once pitch locked the fuel governor controls rpm with in power authority, at 14330 to 14530 rpm.
Standard prop governing is 13820 +-2.
So if power is reduced to below 13820 that is when the 5 and 12 stg bleed could pop and then Brown is in rotation unless they are are feathered.
I am glad I was not on it having only seen one PL in about 4000hrs, and it is scary.
A good job done by a couple of Chaps.

BBG

[flap15]

History point

When the Electra was originaly designed it was intended to have just the two seats and no engineer. However at the time the FAA were looking at the new fangled jets such as the 707 and 727 and felt that these complex types should have an engineer station and passed rules to govern this. The L188 was included, so late in the design stage the third seat was added a few switches were added to give him somthing to do and conformity with regualstions was achiedved. If the L188 had been a true three crew aircraft it would not have been possible for Atlantic to do away with the third seat.

[gulfairs]

I am not too sure about that, but having operated for 6 yrs as an FE then progressed thru the other two seats, The FE's job is more than worth his salary in maintenance cost reduction, and enhanced safety when there is a tech problem in flight.
Most F/O's have little interest in the technicals of an aircraft except for what they have to know, their prime objective is the seniority list and how soon can they get a command!
Admittedly I fall into a minority category where I did 4 years as a ATC at a then International airport before moving along to the F/E seat and so on.
But a couple of years min. in the third seat sure brings one up to speed in technical knowledge of the equipment one is operating.
The few extra switches comment, is raw untreated sewage.
BBG.

[freightdoggy dog]

3 engines out on an Electra, no problem. I've seen the tech log, I am amazed they walked away from it. And yes its been done before, see the piccie

[argon18]

Wouldn't say that 3 engines out is 'no problem', but the crew did an excellent job.

One engine e-handled in flight, 2 engines winding down on short final. Landed with only one engine producing full power.

[freightdoggy dog]

Don't forget the jammed rudder and over temp on the remaining engine ( no 4 )Argon! I think they were glad to have the dead heading ground engineer sitting in the middle that night than the usual flask of coffee!

[biggls]

Atlantic L188

OK as an ex AAT employee having operated D3 and DC6,. I can appreciate the achievement and say well done. It is the norm with the 6 to have one engine out but threes impressive. Well done by, a competent crew, just goes to show theirs is no substitute for a well trained pilot, better then some of the other training Establishments.

[Daysleeper]

As an ex electra skipper I have now heard through the grapevine most of what happened and just how much mortal peril the crew were in. How they recovered the aircraft I have no idea and I look forward to the opportunity to hear the whole story and buy the crew a beer at some time in the future. Boys you've done us proud just by surviving and I would hope that if the same had happened to me I would have survived - though I doubt it.


I would think there may be candidates for the "HUGH GORDON-BURGE MEMORIAL AWARD" here.

[woptb]

In the twelve years I spent on Electras with Channel only ever experienced single engine shutdowns & fortunately was not on board 285 at SNN when it suffered its 'mishap'.If they ended up having to try to deboost the rudder & fly the aircraft on one,the fact that a GE was sat in the middle seat was EXTREMELY fortuitous.I take my hat off to them!

[JDB1052]

There was also a case in Shannon in 1999 where the L188 touched down without the gear, bent three props before initiating a go-around and did a circuit to land on 1.5 engines. A P3C pilot I spoke with later felt this was an impossible feat but the guys pulled it off. The aircraft never flew again and was scrapped in Shannon a few years later.

http://www.aaiu.ie/upload/general/3973-0.pdf

[freightdoggy dog]

JDB,

The picture posted above is of 285f the morning of the gear up landing at SNN.
To the Atlantic Crew, welcome to the 1 engine club

I hear the para chutney in EDI has been showing you his pictures, as he was on board 285f when it went around on 1. He survived 285 and never flew again

[heathwick252]

Obviously a great bit of flying by these two guys but does anyone know what the cause of this near accident was?
I know they had to shut down No.2 engine because it was running eraticaly but why did No. 1 and 3 flame out?

[Chuck531]

Type of Prop

I used to fly the L-188 with Hamilton Standard Props and never flew the L-188's with the other type of props in fact I cannot even remember what they were called. I wonder what kind of prop they have on their electra's?

Chuck

[lordsummerisle]

That particular aircraft in the incident did have Hamilton standar props, the only one on the fleet that has them.