"604 Driver" the tuth
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"604 Driver" the tuth
“604 Driver” the truth can now be told.
Some nine months have passed since an article on April 5th by “604 Driver” which excited so much interest on PPrune. As the person concerned and the dust has settled, I feel I must correct some of the statements made and give the truth of the matter. I delayed this article in order to protect the Principle company. As this is meant to be a professional forum I will attempt to keep this strictly to do with aviation.
The following are true and can be verified.
1. 604 Driver was my chosen successor to eventually take over from me when I retired.. .2. I trained him to fly jets in 1989/90 when he was 20/21 yrs old. I am “Ex Mil”, a A2 QFI and proud of it. You do not get just under 1000 deck landings (150 at night) to your credit without being able to fly an aircraft.. .3. He left me in a hurry in 1990 seduced by a major Gulf airline and lasted all of approx 6 months due to his arrogance and cockiness failing his simulator ride but with typical arrogance he blamed the system rather than be introspective.. .4. He has had some three or four jobs since then in the space of just ten years, in the previous one doing exactly as he did to me by going round the back to the principles denigrating his chief pilot. Luckily he failed on that occasion. I did not know this at the time and took him on to take over from me when I retired.. .5. To my knowledge he is not, and never has been a qualified “training captain” I put him on a UK course in 2000 conducted by the CAA but he failed due to his high stress levels and possible “personality” reasons. He cannot even give “One Off” check rides and his performance & competence as a so called “instructor pilot/training captain” would therefore be highly questionable. . .6. He has divorced (deserted would be a better word) his wife of only three years leaving her to bring up their child, he latter mentions on PPrune about court case he attended (PPrune April 22nd) He does not say it was his own divorce and I only mention this as this article succinctly shows his state of mind.. .7. Before he wrote his original article I had already indicated to the Principles on March the 16th my wish to slowly retire from the flying side of our operation. . .8. His article was his impulsive response to my official report on an incident on the 20th March when he went directly to the Principles on an aviation matter when I was available and in direct contravention of standing orders (and common decency). He and his friend, whom I had given a job one year previously, had apparently been going behind my back for some time.. .9. Since he has become “chief pilot” the following have happened:-
a. one co-pilot has left with “604 Driver” attempting to damn his professional ability to his next employer. He accused the co-pilot of falsifying his logbook which is a criminal offence and did it for no other reason that petty spite and to damn his future career. This is possibly the subject of litigation.. .b. Two stewardess’s have left. One due to sexual harassment. I have her statement.. .c. He has made a slanderous statement against me to a senior passenger regarding a flight in October 2000.. .d. Has seriously upset relations between a major handling agent due to his arrogance & unreasonable temper, so much so that one of the girls rang me up in the UK to ask what was going on.
Yes I did make mistakes, any pilot who thinks he will not do so in the course of his career is arrogant in the extreme but not all the embroidered ones “604 Driver” attempts to use his journalistic invective to justify his arrogance & disloyalty and I have witnesses to the facts.
If any PROFESSIONAL pilot (not the likes of “Bright-ling” who as an ATCO can hardly have too much idea of landing an aircraft with severe turbulence, limiting crosswind, 3.5 degree slope and a wet runway) wishes to see the article and subsequent faxes from me which I wrote when I first came to hear of “604 Drivers” diatribe about me in April 2001 then they can contact me via PPrune on email. They are too long to publish on this forum.
Some nine months have passed since an article on April 5th by “604 Driver” which excited so much interest on PPrune. As the person concerned and the dust has settled, I feel I must correct some of the statements made and give the truth of the matter. I delayed this article in order to protect the Principle company. As this is meant to be a professional forum I will attempt to keep this strictly to do with aviation.
The following are true and can be verified.
1. 604 Driver was my chosen successor to eventually take over from me when I retired.. .2. I trained him to fly jets in 1989/90 when he was 20/21 yrs old. I am “Ex Mil”, a A2 QFI and proud of it. You do not get just under 1000 deck landings (150 at night) to your credit without being able to fly an aircraft.. .3. He left me in a hurry in 1990 seduced by a major Gulf airline and lasted all of approx 6 months due to his arrogance and cockiness failing his simulator ride but with typical arrogance he blamed the system rather than be introspective.. .4. He has had some three or four jobs since then in the space of just ten years, in the previous one doing exactly as he did to me by going round the back to the principles denigrating his chief pilot. Luckily he failed on that occasion. I did not know this at the time and took him on to take over from me when I retired.. .5. To my knowledge he is not, and never has been a qualified “training captain” I put him on a UK course in 2000 conducted by the CAA but he failed due to his high stress levels and possible “personality” reasons. He cannot even give “One Off” check rides and his performance & competence as a so called “instructor pilot/training captain” would therefore be highly questionable. . .6. He has divorced (deserted would be a better word) his wife of only three years leaving her to bring up their child, he latter mentions on PPrune about court case he attended (PPrune April 22nd) He does not say it was his own divorce and I only mention this as this article succinctly shows his state of mind.. .7. Before he wrote his original article I had already indicated to the Principles on March the 16th my wish to slowly retire from the flying side of our operation. . .8. His article was his impulsive response to my official report on an incident on the 20th March when he went directly to the Principles on an aviation matter when I was available and in direct contravention of standing orders (and common decency). He and his friend, whom I had given a job one year previously, had apparently been going behind my back for some time.. .9. Since he has become “chief pilot” the following have happened:-
a. one co-pilot has left with “604 Driver” attempting to damn his professional ability to his next employer. He accused the co-pilot of falsifying his logbook which is a criminal offence and did it for no other reason that petty spite and to damn his future career. This is possibly the subject of litigation.. .b. Two stewardess’s have left. One due to sexual harassment. I have her statement.. .c. He has made a slanderous statement against me to a senior passenger regarding a flight in October 2000.. .d. Has seriously upset relations between a major handling agent due to his arrogance & unreasonable temper, so much so that one of the girls rang me up in the UK to ask what was going on.
Yes I did make mistakes, any pilot who thinks he will not do so in the course of his career is arrogant in the extreme but not all the embroidered ones “604 Driver” attempts to use his journalistic invective to justify his arrogance & disloyalty and I have witnesses to the facts.
If any PROFESSIONAL pilot (not the likes of “Bright-ling” who as an ATCO can hardly have too much idea of landing an aircraft with severe turbulence, limiting crosswind, 3.5 degree slope and a wet runway) wishes to see the article and subsequent faxes from me which I wrote when I first came to hear of “604 Drivers” diatribe about me in April 2001 then they can contact me via PPrune on email. They are too long to publish on this forum.
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What is this rubbish doing here? Aside from sugesting that one un-named individual may have been accused of sexual harassment, what does the above post achieve?
It certainly doesn't read like the work of anyone I would have as a management pilot, regardless of the number of night deck landings survived.
Moderators, time for a spot of spring-cleaning, perhaps?
It certainly doesn't read like the work of anyone I would have as a management pilot, regardless of the number of night deck landings survived.
Moderators, time for a spot of spring-cleaning, perhaps?
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NorthernSky read 604's thread, I think ayios is perfectly entitled to tell his side of the story after being attacked in such a fashion. This matter could of been solved in private, but 604 chose a public forum to air his views (he says he tried to talk to ayios beforehand, ayios said he was never approched). After looking at some of 604's posts I am inclined to believe ayios.
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I reread 604's thread in the light of these posts.
Yes, ayios does have a right of reply following very serious allegations made against him on a public forum.
However I suspect sadly that this can only be solved by either ayios or 604 making a CHIPS report on the other. I know its probably going to be career threatening for the losing party, but I can't see that either side is going to win by posting their side on Pprune. Its now gone too far for one side not want to do this because of some last grains of sympathy for the other side.
I hesitate to use the words 'dangerous pilot' but if 604 is correct, this could be applied to ayios. Similarly if 604's accusations are groundless, these words could be applied to him. Or the truth is somewhere in the middle the words are not appropriate to either side, and the professionals have a duty to investigate and sort it out.
Yes, ayios does have a right of reply following very serious allegations made against him on a public forum.
However I suspect sadly that this can only be solved by either ayios or 604 making a CHIPS report on the other. I know its probably going to be career threatening for the losing party, but I can't see that either side is going to win by posting their side on Pprune. Its now gone too far for one side not want to do this because of some last grains of sympathy for the other side.
I hesitate to use the words 'dangerous pilot' but if 604 is correct, this could be applied to ayios. Similarly if 604's accusations are groundless, these words could be applied to him. Or the truth is somewhere in the middle the words are not appropriate to either side, and the professionals have a duty to investigate and sort it out.
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Hands up those who honestly believe that 604's original post wasn't posted specifically to have a go at aeios? (or however it's spelt...)
This is a great place for rumour but if you've got a genuine problem which will affect Flight Safety you, as a Commercial Pilot, have a duty of care to report it to the relevant authority. You shouldn't ask people for their "advice" on here (this bit's aimed at 604).
Aeios - I can appreciate that you feel it correct to state your point of view, and all credit for taking time to do so and not just jumping in after it was posted, but people reading both the posts just get a feeling of sour grapes (and we've all be in a position where we'd love to have a go at someone for reasons which, to us, are justified). We're all going to jump on a bandwagon, but at the end of the day what has posting this had on both parties? Has it really helped Flight Safety...?
It's just not cricket is it...
[ 12 February 2002: Message edited by: Daifly ]</p>
This is a great place for rumour but if you've got a genuine problem which will affect Flight Safety you, as a Commercial Pilot, have a duty of care to report it to the relevant authority. You shouldn't ask people for their "advice" on here (this bit's aimed at 604).
Aeios - I can appreciate that you feel it correct to state your point of view, and all credit for taking time to do so and not just jumping in after it was posted, but people reading both the posts just get a feeling of sour grapes (and we've all be in a position where we'd love to have a go at someone for reasons which, to us, are justified). We're all going to jump on a bandwagon, but at the end of the day what has posting this had on both parties? Has it really helped Flight Safety...?
It's just not cricket is it...
[ 12 February 2002: Message edited by: Daifly ]</p>
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Original Link:
<a href="http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=013284" target="_blank">http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=013284</a>
<a href="http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=013284" target="_blank">http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=013284</a>
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The Original post by 604 goes for seven (7) pages on the forum and I bet this one goes a ways also. Just because two guys cant get along....What happened to the good old days when you both took a walk behind the barn for a major ass whoopin..... .then discussed the problem.. .On to some other thread for me.
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604 drivers article collected some 7 pages of replies and only one person had the sense to realise that 604 might have had a hidden agenda, most replies were just the “hang him/report him” brigade who sadly contribute little to the feeling that we are a “Profession” rather than just a “job”
If by being guilty of sour grapes (Daifly) means that I do not have the right of reply to a devastating indictment on my ability then I must plead guilty and I have a certain respect for the argument of Northernsky in that the original article by 604 Driver should never have been published on an international professional forum but having done so I consider that I do have the right of reply, however late.
I had received a written official report from the Principles regarding a flight that 604 Driver had done earlier in the year and his article was a direct petulant response to my official report on latter an incident which occurred on 19/20th March. As the person who not only employed him but was responsible for all aspects of the operation, I did question his mental state in the light of his divorce and had previously offered him time off. He chose to decline this offer. I consider that the whole tenure of his article would show that both the CAA and myself were right in our assessment.. .I never queried his piloting abilities, after all Rudolf Hess managed quite well, out of practice flying from Germany to the UK in the dark in the middle of a war, but they still locked him up for the rest of his life!!
We have a well know author in jail at the moment for perjury, his books are a damned good read but you certainly do not believe everything he has spoken of written.
I repeat my offer, if “Professional” who wishes to have copies of any reports to verify my original reports/statements then they can email via ayios@pprune . “Sailor” has already has a copy and perhaps he has changed his mind somewhat.
“What goes round, comes round”
If by being guilty of sour grapes (Daifly) means that I do not have the right of reply to a devastating indictment on my ability then I must plead guilty and I have a certain respect for the argument of Northernsky in that the original article by 604 Driver should never have been published on an international professional forum but having done so I consider that I do have the right of reply, however late.
I had received a written official report from the Principles regarding a flight that 604 Driver had done earlier in the year and his article was a direct petulant response to my official report on latter an incident which occurred on 19/20th March. As the person who not only employed him but was responsible for all aspects of the operation, I did question his mental state in the light of his divorce and had previously offered him time off. He chose to decline this offer. I consider that the whole tenure of his article would show that both the CAA and myself were right in our assessment.. .I never queried his piloting abilities, after all Rudolf Hess managed quite well, out of practice flying from Germany to the UK in the dark in the middle of a war, but they still locked him up for the rest of his life!!
We have a well know author in jail at the moment for perjury, his books are a damned good read but you certainly do not believe everything he has spoken of written.
I repeat my offer, if “Professional” who wishes to have copies of any reports to verify my original reports/statements then they can email via ayios@pprune . “Sailor” has already has a copy and perhaps he has changed his mind somewhat.
“What goes round, comes round”
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Captain Spunkfarter
Sorry, I meant CHIRP. For anyone still mystified, the website and summary is . .<a href="http://www.chirp.co.uk/air_transport/Chirp_Summary.htm" target="_blank">here.</a>
I'm puzzled as to why I was thinking about guys on motorbikes in tight pants at that time of the morning.
Sorry, I meant CHIRP. For anyone still mystified, the website and summary is . .<a href="http://www.chirp.co.uk/air_transport/Chirp_Summary.htm" target="_blank">here.</a>
I'm puzzled as to why I was thinking about guys on motorbikes in tight pants at that time of the morning.
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In the original post Desk Driver (third or fourth response) said
This should be a private conversation with management.......not here!
Probably the most sensible comment in over 9 pages of postings!
This should be a private conversation with management.......not here!
Probably the most sensible comment in over 9 pages of postings!
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Good to hear your side of the story (at last!)
I never liked the fact that 604 came to a public forum instead of going to the authorities!
it stank of evil intent to me and still does!
I never liked the fact that 604 came to a public forum instead of going to the authorities!
it stank of evil intent to me and still does!
