Wideroe Pilot Quits due to security checkpoint hassles
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What do we do?
It seems to me that this is a pretty volatile subject.
There have been several ideas on how to change the situation. The idea of no flights for 24 hours would probably be very effective, but we would also be very unemployed afterwards.
We could try a charm offensive instead. What do you say we all bring our least favorite screaners a bouquet of flowers, all on the same day? Maybe it will work, stranger things have happened.
You can pick them up on your way in to the airport. If you are already out on the road you can lift the centerpiece from the breakfast buffet. Doesn't have to be anything too fancy, it is the thought that counts, right? Right???
Before I sign off, there are a few wonderful screeners out there, and you know who you are. All we as pilots ask for is as much respect as you want from us.
Lets make Friday March 23rd, 2007 the first Airport Security Squally Extinguishing Day. We can be refer to it as ASSED day.
There have been several ideas on how to change the situation. The idea of no flights for 24 hours would probably be very effective, but we would also be very unemployed afterwards.
We could try a charm offensive instead. What do you say we all bring our least favorite screaners a bouquet of flowers, all on the same day? Maybe it will work, stranger things have happened.
You can pick them up on your way in to the airport. If you are already out on the road you can lift the centerpiece from the breakfast buffet. Doesn't have to be anything too fancy, it is the thought that counts, right? Right???
Before I sign off, there are a few wonderful screeners out there, and you know who you are. All we as pilots ask for is as much respect as you want from us.
Lets make Friday March 23rd, 2007 the first Airport Security Squally Extinguishing Day. We can be refer to it as ASSED day.
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Hassle is just the forename...
As an executive driver I have to go trough the crasy process sometimes as much as 6 times a day...
Let's talk about some: As a crew, I have to go trough the screening since years even if nowadays it is not necessary to have "tools" to be a terrorist, you only need access to the flight deck, turn off the AP and fly into the target! However they keep searching things in our possession...
As crew we are obliged to prove that we are good citizen in order to be hired and receive an airport and crew member card dont we?
In the other end, the fellow from the catering, ground services or whatever enters the sensible zone with no screening, even with a vehicle which could be full of sensible items like more than 100 ml water...
I am speeking in perfect knowledge, I am working in an airport since 1984 and believe me if you wanr to enter, you enter even without going trough security or jumping over a fence
Now, when I go to work to fly this aircraft, loaded by the guy from catering with a lot off unchecked stuff already inside, I am maybe the terrorist because I know how to disconnect the AP, and the guy from the catering placed also a bomb or the VIP (non checked today) pax his a terrorist, SO WHY it is the pilots who are searched deep for things?
I am really sick of all that b......t and I have to remain very professional and calm (Hopefully I just did my CRM) not to pop out a fuse...
Let us react against the war against pilots
As an executive driver I have to go trough the crasy process sometimes as much as 6 times a day...
Let's talk about some: As a crew, I have to go trough the screening since years even if nowadays it is not necessary to have "tools" to be a terrorist, you only need access to the flight deck, turn off the AP and fly into the target! However they keep searching things in our possession...
As crew we are obliged to prove that we are good citizen in order to be hired and receive an airport and crew member card dont we?
In the other end, the fellow from the catering, ground services or whatever enters the sensible zone with no screening, even with a vehicle which could be full of sensible items like more than 100 ml water...
I am speeking in perfect knowledge, I am working in an airport since 1984 and believe me if you wanr to enter, you enter even without going trough security or jumping over a fence
Now, when I go to work to fly this aircraft, loaded by the guy from catering with a lot off unchecked stuff already inside, I am maybe the terrorist because I know how to disconnect the AP, and the guy from the catering placed also a bomb or the VIP (non checked today) pax his a terrorist, SO WHY it is the pilots who are searched deep for things?
I am really sick of all that b......t and I have to remain very professional and calm (Hopefully I just did my CRM) not to pop out a fuse...
Let us react against the war against pilots
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I think we're all united in our opinions regarding the current security procedures, but I'm a little uncomfortable about directing this dissatisfaction at individuals.
Yes, there are jobs-worth’s working at security in airports all over the world, but there are also jobs-worths working in every industry in every walk of life (including flight crew)! How many pilot's would go against their company SOP's to satisfy their airline's customers? Should we expect these people to bend their rules, because their job is not as worthy? To say that these people are worthless, just because they earn less money, or are considered to have a lower social status, in my opinion is wrong.
I think it's quite likely that the hostile attitude that we've all been the victim of, is more often than not the result of being in a constantly negative environment. Let’s take a moment to look at this situation from their point of view. They are asked to do a job in a certain way and have to follow strict (ridiculous) procedures. Now imagine listening to all of our sarcastic comments, remarks and general bad feeling to what they are trying to enforce, day in day out. Let’s face it, eventually you’re going to end up a pretty sour individual.
Remember, there are always two sides to every story, maybe these people are as much victims as the rest of us?
Yes, there are jobs-worth’s working at security in airports all over the world, but there are also jobs-worths working in every industry in every walk of life (including flight crew)! How many pilot's would go against their company SOP's to satisfy their airline's customers? Should we expect these people to bend their rules, because their job is not as worthy? To say that these people are worthless, just because they earn less money, or are considered to have a lower social status, in my opinion is wrong.
I think it's quite likely that the hostile attitude that we've all been the victim of, is more often than not the result of being in a constantly negative environment. Let’s take a moment to look at this situation from their point of view. They are asked to do a job in a certain way and have to follow strict (ridiculous) procedures. Now imagine listening to all of our sarcastic comments, remarks and general bad feeling to what they are trying to enforce, day in day out. Let’s face it, eventually you’re going to end up a pretty sour individual.
Remember, there are always two sides to every story, maybe these people are as much victims as the rest of us?
Last edited by TotalBeginner; 20th Mar 2007 at 01:42.
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Madness
I witnessed an armed airport police officer being asked to put his pistol through the scanner at the crew checkpoint. I am not quite sure what the security staff were looking for because they gave it back to him afterwards
Let’s face it, eventually you’re going to end up a pretty sour individual.
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Went through the transit screening at Sydney domestic the other day. Three people there: the screener, my F/O and me. As I picked up my bag post x-ray I noticed a tray sitting on the rollers containing an apparently abandoned mobile phone.
I said: "Hey, someone forgot their mobile phone."
Screener says: "No no, that's mine."
He'd put his own phone through the machine?? I repeat, he was the only bloke there apart from us two crew. And he doesn't even have to step through the arch to get to his console. So they even give themselves a hard time!
I really should just give up, shouldn't I, and go give myself a good
I said: "Hey, someone forgot their mobile phone."
Screener says: "No no, that's mine."
He'd put his own phone through the machine?? I repeat, he was the only bloke there apart from us two crew. And he doesn't even have to step through the arch to get to his console. So they even give themselves a hard time!
I really should just give up, shouldn't I, and go give myself a good
It's backfiring in Manchester. The queues are so long to get through security most days that there is no time to browse through the shopping experience on the other side. Most pax end up standing around for 40 mins and then running direct to the gate. Profits down, will have to look for some cost savings. Cut the security saff pay and numbers.... revenues down further 
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While PPRuNe is an excellent tool to inform eachother of what is happening internationally, limiting ourselves to posting and moaning here wil not improve our daily lives on the line.
As inviduals we are often regarded as overpaid & spoilt busdrivers and waitressses. As individuals, even as a group, we have little actual influence.
Airline management does have such influence.
They pay out the huge sums of money to airport authorities, their active involvement will have a result.
Management, like every other human being, is prone to flock-animal behaviour. Letting them know about what is happening in Norway, for example by copying the letter from post 7 on this thread and the newspaper article below, and urging them to take similar action would be a good start.
SAS Braathen is a large carrier, and a serious one. They are a 'safe' lead to follow for even the most careful manager.
Time to take action.
As inviduals we are often regarded as overpaid & spoilt busdrivers and waitressses. As individuals, even as a group, we have little actual influence.
Airline management does have such influence.
They pay out the huge sums of money to airport authorities, their active involvement will have a result.
Management, like every other human being, is prone to flock-animal behaviour. Letting them know about what is happening in Norway, for example by copying the letter from post 7 on this thread and the newspaper article below, and urging them to take similar action would be a good start.
SAS Braathen is a large carrier, and a serious one. They are a 'safe' lead to follow for even the most careful manager.
Time to take action.
The Aviation Authority director will today meet with airlines and the Airport Authority Avinor to solve the the security check-conflict.
Pilots and other airline staff feel they are being harassed and made to look suspicious at the security checks. This weekend the CEOs of SAS Braathens, Norwegian and Widerøe sent a joint letter to Avinor expressing their strong concern about the developments, and stating that an unfortunate culture has developed at many Norwegian airports.
Thursday a flight from Hammerfest was cancelled after a disagreement between the flight’s captain and a security employee. On saturday news broke that another pilot, Per Olav Lyngøy from Widerøe, is resigning in protest against the way the new security rules are being practiced.
More pilots are considering resigning because they feel harassed at the security checkpoints.
In their letter the airlines point out that the provocative and humiliating treatment of flight crew has a negative effect on safety, since staff preparing for a flight is being provoked and distracted.
Yesterday the director of the Aviation Authority, Heine Richardsen, demanded a meeting with the parties involved.
We have also called in those who are responsible for the security checks, among other things to have a look at the training of the security checkers.
- this is an unacceptable situation, which we will resolve – says an Avinor’s spokesperson.
According to the Aviation Authority, the meeting will be based on the letter from the airlines pointing out that air-safety is endangered by the security checks.
If individual security checkers knowingly provoke flight staff, then the plot has been totally lost and we will have to clean up in this matter.
-security staff will have to do their job with respect. They need more training, and should learn about the effects their checks have on people.
Avinor will go through all documentation and reports from a long list of episodes, and will consider possible actions.
Pilots and other airline staff feel they are being harassed and made to look suspicious at the security checks. This weekend the CEOs of SAS Braathens, Norwegian and Widerøe sent a joint letter to Avinor expressing their strong concern about the developments, and stating that an unfortunate culture has developed at many Norwegian airports.
Thursday a flight from Hammerfest was cancelled after a disagreement between the flight’s captain and a security employee. On saturday news broke that another pilot, Per Olav Lyngøy from Widerøe, is resigning in protest against the way the new security rules are being practiced.
More pilots are considering resigning because they feel harassed at the security checkpoints.
In their letter the airlines point out that the provocative and humiliating treatment of flight crew has a negative effect on safety, since staff preparing for a flight is being provoked and distracted.
Yesterday the director of the Aviation Authority, Heine Richardsen, demanded a meeting with the parties involved.
We have also called in those who are responsible for the security checks, among other things to have a look at the training of the security checkers.
- this is an unacceptable situation, which we will resolve – says an Avinor’s spokesperson.
According to the Aviation Authority, the meeting will be based on the letter from the airlines pointing out that air-safety is endangered by the security checks.
If individual security checkers knowingly provoke flight staff, then the plot has been totally lost and we will have to clean up in this matter.
-security staff will have to do their job with respect. They need more training, and should learn about the effects their checks have on people.
Avinor will go through all documentation and reports from a long list of episodes, and will consider possible actions.
Well I have generally found I get treated better as PAX than crew...so I am lucky...I won't be crew for too much longer..
The reality is that the security of our planet is now in the hands of the bottom two rungs on the ladder. No sense of humour, no ability to sense a situation and absolutely no ability to stop the professonals from blowing up my a/c.
Airport security..Try looking at a cow for 45 minutes...how secure do you feel after that?
Get me out of here.
The reality is that the security of our planet is now in the hands of the bottom two rungs on the ladder. No sense of humour, no ability to sense a situation and absolutely no ability to stop the professonals from blowing up my a/c.
Airport security..Try looking at a cow for 45 minutes...how secure do you feel after that?
Get me out of here.
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At last! I have been thoroughly enjoying the posts about this sore subject that lambastes the utter nonsense being perpetrated in the name of 'security' (insecurity). Having started my airline career nine years before airport security was invented and having had an enjoyable career abruptly ended by some building busting buggers thirty-nine years later, I was obliged to go home after I and twenty-four other expat pilots in the company I worked for were made redundant as a result of that action.
I have taken only two commercial domestic flights since! I certainly miss the flying itself but not the airport hassles. I can fully appreciate the enormous sacrifice to one's sanity every airline employee may be subjected to every day to satisfy the security sociopaths' demands.
Flufdriver really has the most effective solution to this extreme madness in my humble opinion.
It will take the unified solidarity of all working members of the aviation community affected by the daily humiliation and harassment of running through the airport screening gauntlet by literally HALTING all aviation activity of every description for a full twenty-four hours. No words that have been written in this forum along this thread that may be directed at media, government officialdom, or anyone else will do. ACTION is the loudest voice to be heard. Withholding all service worldwide for twenty-four hours, to include ground staff as well as aircrew may well be the loudest and only voice officialdom will be able to hear. I'm sure the traveling public would notice as they would be the most affected by the inconvenience.
My thanks to the many of you still at the front lines now having to endure.
I have taken only two commercial domestic flights since! I certainly miss the flying itself but not the airport hassles. I can fully appreciate the enormous sacrifice to one's sanity every airline employee may be subjected to every day to satisfy the security sociopaths' demands.
Flufdriver really has the most effective solution to this extreme madness in my humble opinion.
It will take the unified solidarity of all working members of the aviation community affected by the daily humiliation and harassment of running through the airport screening gauntlet by literally HALTING all aviation activity of every description for a full twenty-four hours. No words that have been written in this forum along this thread that may be directed at media, government officialdom, or anyone else will do. ACTION is the loudest voice to be heard. Withholding all service worldwide for twenty-four hours, to include ground staff as well as aircrew may well be the loudest and only voice officialdom will be able to hear. I'm sure the traveling public would notice as they would be the most affected by the inconvenience.
My thanks to the many of you still at the front lines now having to endure.
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International Action
A suggestion, initial applications via national Pilot Associations to IFALPA, national Cabin Crew Associations together, national Trade Union groups who rep all segments of Ground Staff. This would be one hell of a powerful threat to allcon. Yes a logistical nightmare, but just think for a few minutes of what could be achieved, after all we are talking of AIR SAFETY here. The psychological impact of this stress inducing properties of such confrontations is well documented.
There are a few good screeners out there, professional and polite but a lot of these idiots would be better suited to the wheel clamp unit, assuming they could lift their game enough to qualify.
What is the point of walking through the scanner anyway they are set so sensatively a rivet on a pair of Levis will set them off ? I almost stripped down to my underwear the other day I was so fed up with one of these morons.
Only thing to do is get the names of the worst ones and document the incidents, a few hundred complaints may lead to the bad ones being replaced.
At least if they do take my nail clippers away I can always use the crash axe to clean under my nails instead.
What is the point of walking through the scanner anyway they are set so sensatively a rivet on a pair of Levis will set them off ? I almost stripped down to my underwear the other day I was so fed up with one of these morons.
Only thing to do is get the names of the worst ones and document the incidents, a few hundred complaints may lead to the bad ones being replaced.
At least if they do take my nail clippers away I can always use the crash axe to clean under my nails instead.
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Isn't the real reason for security screening uniformed flight crew more about treating each one as a possible imposter?
I mean, you know you're not an imposter,but how does the security screener know that?
If he knows you haven't any means of taking control of the aircraft other than the fact you already have control of it, hasn't the screener done their job?
I know how fecking irritating it is. I hate being treated on the assumption I'm a terrorist/criminal until they're satisfied I'm not.
But just because a person is uniformed and has airline and govt-issued ID doesn't make them above scrutiny. Does it?
I mean, you know you're not an imposter,but how does the security screener know that?
If he knows you haven't any means of taking control of the aircraft other than the fact you already have control of it, hasn't the screener done their job?
I know how fecking irritating it is. I hate being treated on the assumption I'm a terrorist/criminal until they're satisfied I'm not.
But just because a person is uniformed and has airline and govt-issued ID doesn't make them above scrutiny. Does it?
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Then what is the purpose of the ID? And the rest of the vetting we have to endure?
When you're a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail. The only job the screener has is to screen. So, screen is what they do.
If the job of the screener was to screen passengers, but to check crew really are who their ID says they are, then the farce of taking the captain's shoes and belt off could be replaced with a far more logical check that he really is the captain, not some Leonardo di Caprio "Catch me if you can" type fraudster - or something far more sinister.
Which is probably what the tech crew representative bodies should be pushing for.
What do you think?
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X-Raying guns
Going through Teeside about a year ago to board a C130 and go parachuting 50 of us rolled up in two buses at the checkpoint. Everyone off, smocks through the X-Ray machine, and everyone through the arch. Remonstrations that virtually everyone had at least one loaded magazine in a pocket stopped nothing.
Everyone beeped, everyone got patted down, and then they started putting the loose SA80's through as well....at the end of it all? Nothing confiscated, nothing said, just another 30 minutes out of everyone's life.
Everyone beeped, everyone got patted down, and then they started putting the loose SA80's through as well....at the end of it all? Nothing confiscated, nothing said, just another 30 minutes out of everyone's life.
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Guys, please read totalbeginners post again and again.
There are always two sides to a coin.
What distresses me most, is not the stupidity of the security rules, but rather the utter contempt that some people have for the screeners who just do the job they are paid for.
There are always two sides to a coin.
What distresses me most, is not the stupidity of the security rules, but rather the utter contempt that some people have for the screeners who just do the job they are paid for.
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This has been an issue before 9.11 - what do you expect for 7 bucks, or its equivalent, per hour, under severe pressure? Security in the US was sh*te before 9.11 due to paying peanuts, nowadays it's worse as a) there are far more of them on the same wage, and b) the procedures are complicated beyond belief or sense.
That said, though - PENKOs mention of contempt for the screeners rings true in some cases, and maybe the sometimes overzealous "attitude" comes directly as a result of our "attitude"? They're following SOPs rigidly, aren't you doing the same for your own job when you're finally let through?
Good for the Scandinavian airlines, though, it's about time there was a considered response as opposed to the bo**ocks about 24 hour strikes. Apart from that, you either a) employ more of them so they are under less pressure and can operate in a more human fashion, or preferably b) train them and pay them properly so they act professionally.
Got to go, I hear some BAA pigs flying outside the door....
That said, though - PENKOs mention of contempt for the screeners rings true in some cases, and maybe the sometimes overzealous "attitude" comes directly as a result of our "attitude"? They're following SOPs rigidly, aren't you doing the same for your own job when you're finally let through?
Good for the Scandinavian airlines, though, it's about time there was a considered response as opposed to the bo**ocks about 24 hour strikes. Apart from that, you either a) employ more of them so they are under less pressure and can operate in a more human fashion, or preferably b) train them and pay them properly so they act professionally.
Got to go, I hear some BAA pigs flying outside the door....
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I didn't have my camera yesterday which was unfortunate, because I saw the ultimate security nonsensity.
I was at The International Australian Airshow (at Avalon) and there on the flightline was a row of executive jets as well as Military and so on. The USAF was there, there are large numbers of military from all over the world, lots of medals etc. Security searched bags going in, security men everywhere.
Right in the middle of the flight line was a nice shiny new Pilatus PC-12 on display - owned by the West Australian Police no less - and it had a clamp lock on the nosewheel
I was at The International Australian Airshow (at Avalon) and there on the flightline was a row of executive jets as well as Military and so on. The USAF was there, there are large numbers of military from all over the world, lots of medals etc. Security searched bags going in, security men everywhere.
Right in the middle of the flight line was a nice shiny new Pilatus PC-12 on display - owned by the West Australian Police no less - and it had a clamp lock on the nosewheel