Wideroe Pilot Quits due to security checkpoint hassles
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hong Kong
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On my world-wide travels I pass through security screening as Crew and from time to time as pax. There is NO DOUBT but I am treated differently when attired in my Uniform. My carry on luggage is never searched as a pax, it is regularly searched as a Pilot, even though it is the very same bag with the very same contents.
The route structure I work on does not extend to the US, but the worst BS I have encountered is in Europe. Its nothing short of ridiculous, Scanning, sniffing, swab and frisking. Its an industry that has blossomed on fear, the unknown and mass speculation.
It would be an interesting exercise to discover the personalities pocketing the profits from this "mega, ever expanding monster".
OCH
The route structure I work on does not extend to the US, but the worst BS I have encountered is in Europe. Its nothing short of ridiculous, Scanning, sniffing, swab and frisking. Its an industry that has blossomed on fear, the unknown and mass speculation.
It would be an interesting exercise to discover the personalities pocketing the profits from this "mega, ever expanding monster".
OCH
I Have Control
Join Date: May 2004
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It's ok to carry bombs/guns/shoe explosives, even water! AFTER MIDNIGHT, though!
Just operated out of the USA back to the UK, with NO SECURITY CHECKS whatsoever! Why? Because TSA had gone home. The departure had been delayed until the wee small hours, and as a result we were free to go to work with no removal of trouser belt, shoes, laptop, examination of bag and confiscation of water. Explain that if you will.
I too will be quitting the airline world later this year. Obtrusive security checks organised by idiots, and carried out by low-end workers have contributed to my decision, and I look forward to improving my quality of life hugely by this move.
I too will be quitting the airline world later this year. Obtrusive security checks organised by idiots, and carried out by low-end workers have contributed to my decision, and I look forward to improving my quality of life hugely by this move.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: uk
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Osma must be laughing his socks off or whatever he wears these days. The war on terror has been well and truely lost.
Whatever Bush or Blair say he has been good for them in that they have got themselves and their mates incredible powers and money making opportunities.
What incentive is there for this to be resolved? Non, there is too much money and power at stake.
Whatever Bush or Blair say he has been good for them in that they have got themselves and their mates incredible powers and money making opportunities.
What incentive is there for this to be resolved? Non, there is too much money and power at stake.
Pilots need to show solidarity against this bureacratic nonsense. Yes I am all for "reasonable" and polite security but in the wake of 9/11 a new empire has emerged - "Security".
In the UK if you had told the Railway Signallers or Train Drivers that they could not take liquids (ie food and water etc) to their place of work they would have all come out on strike and the network would have ground to a halt and then, I am sure, the politicians would have done something pretty smartly to get things going again.
Flight crew are in the front line of security - we are the "end users" (as well as pax etc) but we need to communicate to the politicians what is going on at the sharp end as I doubt whether many of them have a clue what we have to go through everyday of our working lives. A day or two of stoppage would soon make them take note!
In the UK if you had told the Railway Signallers or Train Drivers that they could not take liquids (ie food and water etc) to their place of work they would have all come out on strike and the network would have ground to a halt and then, I am sure, the politicians would have done something pretty smartly to get things going again.
Flight crew are in the front line of security - we are the "end users" (as well as pax etc) but we need to communicate to the politicians what is going on at the sharp end as I doubt whether many of them have a clue what we have to go through everyday of our working lives. A day or two of stoppage would soon make them take note!
Lady Lexxington
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TSR2, you must pass through a different MAN to me. As a member of ground staff I pass through security several times daily and it is beyond a joke! I always take my shoes, jacket, hat and overcoat off. I no longer wear a belt. I still beep.
I am then patted down by some officious comfy shoe wearer and then have my possesions rifled though. This happens 3 out of 4 times! It is very trying to carry on being polite and then going about the business of customer service when you are fuming from the ritual humilation. I have made innumerable reports, as have my collegues, to my line manager and as far as we can all tell MAAS just ignore it.
You can't argue with "security" and if you do you are considered a threat.
I have also heard of several people who are leaving the industry, they are sick of being made to feel like criminals whilst going about their business. This includes every level from check in to flight deck. That is something we should be worried about. We are losing valuable, experienced people because of the nonsense that is now security.
I am then patted down by some officious comfy shoe wearer and then have my possesions rifled though. This happens 3 out of 4 times! It is very trying to carry on being polite and then going about the business of customer service when you are fuming from the ritual humilation. I have made innumerable reports, as have my collegues, to my line manager and as far as we can all tell MAAS just ignore it. You can't argue with "security" and if you do you are considered a threat.
I have also heard of several people who are leaving the industry, they are sick of being made to feel like criminals whilst going about their business. This includes every level from check in to flight deck. That is something we should be worried about. We are losing valuable, experienced people because of the nonsense that is now security.
Moon Walker
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I for one will not let them take stuff off me!
I work for an cargo airline and drag a suitcase with a weeks worth of stuff with me.
I will turn around if they tell me i cant take stuff with me ,i dont have another option then to carry my razor and aftershave etc with me.
Offcourse our management tells us to cooperate with all requests from security people but they never deal with them sitting behind there desks!
Be nice to security but tell them ,sorry no im not going to do that! call the company and tell them you cant opperate the flight and dont forget call your union immediately after that (you wil problably need them)
Neil
I work for an cargo airline and drag a suitcase with a weeks worth of stuff with me.
I will turn around if they tell me i cant take stuff with me ,i dont have another option then to carry my razor and aftershave etc with me.
Offcourse our management tells us to cooperate with all requests from security people but they never deal with them sitting behind there desks!
Be nice to security but tell them ,sorry no im not going to do that! call the company and tell them you cant opperate the flight and dont forget call your union immediately after that (you wil problably need them)
Neil
TSR2,
Since the flight crew have executive control of the aircraft anyway, what on earth good does it do to confiscate the water bottle/nail file/swiss army knife or whatever? What is the point of screening them? If, in the future, they are required to carry a firearm on board, will they still have to loose the water bottle at the checkpoint?
Utter madness.
I would have thought it would be obvious.
Since the flight crew have executive control of the aircraft anyway, what on earth good does it do to confiscate the water bottle/nail file/swiss army knife or whatever? What is the point of screening them? If, in the future, they are required to carry a firearm on board, will they still have to loose the water bottle at the checkpoint?
Utter madness.
I would have thought it would be obvious.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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As an Air T. Controller in Hong Kong, where the tower/centre complex is in the middle of the field, we have to go through this security rubbish every time we go to work. If there was a reason for me to quit and leave employment here, I would have to cite the hassles of getting to/from work as a major point. Having to duck through the metal detector each time hoping the damn thing won't go off is an excercise in blood pressure elevation. And then when we get to work, we have to eat meals with plastic implements. The whole issue is getting out of control.
PS, I have no problem with the securitry staff, they are very polite.
PS, I have no problem with the securitry staff, they are very polite.
Join Date: Mar 2005
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I spend approx 50% of my time working airside in the UK and I'm sick to death of having to give the BAA money every day just so that I can get a drink of water! I dread to think how much money I've squandered in the last year alone just buying fluids!!
I cringe every time I pass through a check point, listening to the staff dishing out orders, so absorbed in what they're doing they have no idea how rediculous they sound!
I cringe every time I pass through a check point, listening to the staff dishing out orders, so absorbed in what they're doing they have no idea how rediculous they sound!
Join Date: May 2004
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There is at least one security gate at LGW that screens EVERY staff members shoes that pass through.
Of the total number of people passing through every day, 1/3 need shoes checking.
Check all staff, and they need to check less pax. This is true, and it happens day in day out, so yes, crew do sometimes get treated different to pax.
Of the total number of people passing through every day, 1/3 need shoes checking.
Check all staff, and they need to check less pax. This is true, and it happens day in day out, so yes, crew do sometimes get treated different to pax.
Join Date: Jul 2000
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A question of security.
Now here are a few questions for our security experts.
1 litre of water and a 100ml orange squash in a small plastic bottle or 50 tons of kerosene; which is the most dangerous?
4inch nail file or 150tons of aircraft flown wherever I wish?
A member of crew with a sucurity pass, with all that entails in its' issue to the individual, or someone who is completely unknown to the authorities, with no background or police check whatsoever?
Somewhere the logic of daily screening of flight crews has got lost in the terror engendered by the Politicians and 'Industry' experts who tells us we are an inch away from a huge disaster.
Going through the security gate used solely by airport workers the other day, one of the five people on duty at the time, with his feet up on a table, was asking his colleagues, 'What was the last film that Richard Burton made?' I suspect they were practicing for a pub quiz.
My badge wasn't checked but my flask for drinking water was shaken to check it was empty.
Go figure, as our cousins over the pond are fond of saying.
1 litre of water and a 100ml orange squash in a small plastic bottle or 50 tons of kerosene; which is the most dangerous?
4inch nail file or 150tons of aircraft flown wherever I wish?
A member of crew with a sucurity pass, with all that entails in its' issue to the individual, or someone who is completely unknown to the authorities, with no background or police check whatsoever?
Somewhere the logic of daily screening of flight crews has got lost in the terror engendered by the Politicians and 'Industry' experts who tells us we are an inch away from a huge disaster.
Going through the security gate used solely by airport workers the other day, one of the five people on duty at the time, with his feet up on a table, was asking his colleagues, 'What was the last film that Richard Burton made?' I suspect they were practicing for a pub quiz.
My badge wasn't checked but my flask for drinking water was shaken to check it was empty.
Go figure, as our cousins over the pond are fond of saying.
Join Date: Feb 2001
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I am one of those who got very tired of these harrasments.
I retired 18 month ago, a year before I turned 60 because I was sick and tired of all those idiots in security.
My experience was that these idiots were more or less recruited out of a bunch that all failed the test for the police academy.
All had a "big boss" in their bellies, - and just wanted to show that to everyone in a uniform.
I did write some reports about the harrasment I was subjected to.
Especially those days where the search really went over my "border of sensitivity", - when the searches was too close to my very personnal limits, - and I mean that I dont want to be touched on any private parts in public, - I dont want to be questioned at all by any loudmouthed idiot who want to make fun of their "victim", just to show their coworkers and all other spectators how big and powerfull they are.
Oh my, -oh my, - how mad I could be.
Those reports did not help much, the general anwer was: "we are doing it for your security", - hereby meaning that I just had to take any jokes and any harrasment from the socalled security.
Security, - what a joke. I have as so many others seen security persons, policemen and ground staff as well as tecnicians working in the airports just go around the sensor and into the departure hall without being searched, while I as a pilot had to take the full treatment.
Well, - I enjoy my retirement, and I fly as little as possible as a pax. If possible I drive by car or take a train.
have fun out there
I miss my good colleages, but I can certainly do without harrasment form stupid security people.
To be honest I must admit that I also met a couple (not many) of security people that really understood how to perform their job in af professional way, - efficient and still with a positive, respectful and polite attitude.
B
I retired 18 month ago, a year before I turned 60 because I was sick and tired of all those idiots in security.
My experience was that these idiots were more or less recruited out of a bunch that all failed the test for the police academy.
All had a "big boss" in their bellies, - and just wanted to show that to everyone in a uniform.
I did write some reports about the harrasment I was subjected to.
Especially those days where the search really went over my "border of sensitivity", - when the searches was too close to my very personnal limits, - and I mean that I dont want to be touched on any private parts in public, - I dont want to be questioned at all by any loudmouthed idiot who want to make fun of their "victim", just to show their coworkers and all other spectators how big and powerfull they are.
Oh my, -oh my, - how mad I could be.
Those reports did not help much, the general anwer was: "we are doing it for your security", - hereby meaning that I just had to take any jokes and any harrasment from the socalled security.
Security, - what a joke. I have as so many others seen security persons, policemen and ground staff as well as tecnicians working in the airports just go around the sensor and into the departure hall without being searched, while I as a pilot had to take the full treatment.
Well, - I enjoy my retirement, and I fly as little as possible as a pax. If possible I drive by car or take a train.
have fun out there
I miss my good colleages, but I can certainly do without harrasment form stupid security people.
To be honest I must admit that I also met a couple (not many) of security people that really understood how to perform their job in af professional way, - efficient and still with a positive, respectful and polite attitude.
B
Join Date: Feb 2000
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Our local paper is reporting that an airport seciruty officer was arrested recently. Apparantly he was an illegal immigrant from Zimbabwe using false identity documents.
Obviously no trouble getting a criminal records check then.
Obviously no trouble getting a criminal records check then.
Join Date: Jan 2007
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It may get merged into this thread, but if not:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3184859
about a couple of fake police officers trying to get past security.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3184859
about a couple of fake police officers trying to get past security.
Join Date: Jul 2006
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While positioning with a boarding card, in uniform, at a certain uk airport l was asked to remove my shoes going through pax security. At the other side a pax came over to ask why l had to take mine off when nobody else he could see was removing theirs. l answered in fairly pointed anglo saxon, to which he said he had got the same impression.
In the staff entrance of the same airport l had somebody`s fingers pushed into and around the inside of my collar. Extremely relieved when my basing changed.
In the staff entrance of the same airport l had somebody`s fingers pushed into and around the inside of my collar. Extremely relieved when my basing changed.
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l believe l`m right in saying that if somebody has only been in the country for three weeks, for example, the record check will only go back three weeks because it is not "practical" to go back further. At least that is what l was told at aforesaid uk airport. Utter madness.
Join Date: Jun 2004
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I'm Australian. Went to London and France on staff travel over Xmas.
Paxed sub-load LHR-CDG. No requirement to remove shoes, nor were any pax around me doing so. Returning from CDG, same story - no requirement. And leaving LHR to go home - no requirement.
Yet the QF operating crews told me ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of crew going secure-side are required to remove shoes for screening! Why?
So..... passengers no requirement, but for crew there is a requirement?
Someone mentioned there is a random shoe thing for passengers, or that a certain % have to be done. Maybe they meet quotas and reduce the % of passengers they hassle by doing 100% of the crew. Wouldn't surprise me.
And this is the country that stood proudly and firmly in the dark days of the IRA bombings?
Some pilot is going to end up sacked - for punching the lights out of a security officer one day. I can just imagine it.
You guys in the UK have lost the plot. And the cowardly country Australia is right behind.
Paxed sub-load LHR-CDG. No requirement to remove shoes, nor were any pax around me doing so. Returning from CDG, same story - no requirement. And leaving LHR to go home - no requirement.
Yet the QF operating crews told me ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of crew going secure-side are required to remove shoes for screening! Why?
So..... passengers no requirement, but for crew there is a requirement?
Someone mentioned there is a random shoe thing for passengers, or that a certain % have to be done. Maybe they meet quotas and reduce the % of passengers they hassle by doing 100% of the crew. Wouldn't surprise me.
And this is the country that stood proudly and firmly in the dark days of the IRA bombings?
Some pilot is going to end up sacked - for punching the lights out of a security officer one day. I can just imagine it.
You guys in the UK have lost the plot. And the cowardly country Australia is right behind.
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Going through security ex-UK my bag was hand searched after X-ray. They were highly agitated to find a roll of photocopy sticky tape. Not allowed! Supervisor called. I asked how on earth could sticky tape be a dangerous item? Binding people up was the answer. How could I bring it in to UK from an EU country if the rules are universal? Ah, only UK observes the rules in their entirity. Gawd help us. Supervisor said the tape was too weak to pose a problem, so I could keep it. I asked, what about my tie and belt? Not covered by the rules so no problem. I gave up and confirmed why I left such a nutty country years ago. Common sense has been eradicated along with normal education, so it would seem.
Join Date: Apr 2005
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I too am so tired of the constant head banging, rising stress and blood presure levels and sheer frustration that results in going through security everyday.
One day i can take home made chunky soup as it was in grams, the next day they question the quantity of my youghurt pot checking it wasnt over 100mls!!!
I feel stressed but almost everyday a fellow crew member goes to work she is stopped questioned....sorry actually interogated, then between the nitwits they decide wether they should let her through. You'd think she's smuggling arms but no the hassel is all because she dyed her hair a different colour to whats on her ID pass!
Although you guys could fly the plane into a building there are plenty of ways us Cabin Crew can get you on the floor (so to speak
) contact lense solution in your drinks, part cook the crew food....or just get the crash axe while we're delivering the latest copy of Nuts or Daily Mail into the F/D
I almost truly give.
Can we please do something about this madness???!!!
One day i can take home made chunky soup as it was in grams, the next day they question the quantity of my youghurt pot checking it wasnt over 100mls!!!
I feel stressed but almost everyday a fellow crew member goes to work she is stopped questioned....sorry actually interogated, then between the nitwits they decide wether they should let her through. You'd think she's smuggling arms but no the hassel is all because she dyed her hair a different colour to whats on her ID pass!
Although you guys could fly the plane into a building there are plenty of ways us Cabin Crew can get you on the floor (so to speak
) contact lense solution in your drinks, part cook the crew food....or just get the crash axe while we're delivering the latest copy of Nuts or Daily Mail into the F/DI almost truly give.
Can we please do something about this madness???!!!
Whatever happens,.. happens!
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Well,
it would seem that the great majority of aviation personel on this forum have very similar feelings about about the security industry.
Now, what do we do about it? (if it is not already too late)
Obviously, the first mission is to include the rest of our colleagues in this discussion.
If we the likeminded, are still in a large majority, it is time to start talking about how to bring about a change.
One possible option is for all of us to donate a little of our intelligence and have it transplanted into the people that are running the security industry. However, that may not work because the big boys behind this scheme are not lacking intelligence, rather, they are motivated by greed and there is a lot of money to be made from a scared populace. Inconviniencing Flight crew is just a minor side effect, allowed to exist for the amusement of the poorly paid of the lowest level security staff.
That brings us to the second option; perhaps no flying for a 24hr period worldwide! How would you do this given the time zones? ok, during one 24 hr period starting one midday UTC to the next, no airline flight will leave the ground or something like that and there are probably many better ideas out there to get our message across.
Any reprisals against crew would be similarly addressed.
Something like that would certainly get the media's attention, I do know what will not get any attention, is just us talking in Pprune. Because the people that are right now checking who the hell is hiding behind the name "flufdriver" and how can we shut him up, will say let them vent their frustration on the forum if that makes them feel better!
your comments are encouraged!
fluf
it would seem that the great majority of aviation personel on this forum have very similar feelings about about the security industry.
Now, what do we do about it? (if it is not already too late)
Obviously, the first mission is to include the rest of our colleagues in this discussion.
If we the likeminded, are still in a large majority, it is time to start talking about how to bring about a change.
One possible option is for all of us to donate a little of our intelligence and have it transplanted into the people that are running the security industry. However, that may not work because the big boys behind this scheme are not lacking intelligence, rather, they are motivated by greed and there is a lot of money to be made from a scared populace. Inconviniencing Flight crew is just a minor side effect, allowed to exist for the amusement of the poorly paid of the lowest level security staff.
That brings us to the second option; perhaps no flying for a 24hr period worldwide! How would you do this given the time zones? ok, during one 24 hr period starting one midday UTC to the next, no airline flight will leave the ground or something like that and there are probably many better ideas out there to get our message across.
Any reprisals against crew would be similarly addressed.
Something like that would certainly get the media's attention, I do know what will not get any attention, is just us talking in Pprune. Because the people that are right now checking who the hell is hiding behind the name "flufdriver" and how can we shut him up, will say let them vent their frustration on the forum if that makes them feel better!
your comments are encouraged!
fluf