Air rage (again)
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: Walnut Creek,CA,USA
Some further info regarding my bizarre Delta experience -
Because it was effectively the last flight out before Xmas and the crew would be spending Xmas Day in Dublin the normal bunch of seasoned veterens who fly the route had been replaced by an essentially random crew of replacements, none of whom had enough years to control their destiny. For some of them this was the first trip to Europe! As a result they collectivly comitted a huge faux pas.
The point I think I've made is that giving crews draconion powers to arbitrarily ban people from travel would be a huge mistake.
As for the Alcohol Issue - How much research has been done on the combined effects of Alcohol from drinking, Mild hypoxia from pressurization/ac systems being run at half power, prior usage of ciggaretes, travel stress and claustrophobia? I did a chamber ride at Edwards AFB once and the person next to me become noticbly irritable and cranky as the altitude was 'increased'. I'm not defending Air Rage but their may be a subset of the population who can't cope with the environmental stresses of modern air travel if they've been drinking.
theRolfe
Because it was effectively the last flight out before Xmas and the crew would be spending Xmas Day in Dublin the normal bunch of seasoned veterens who fly the route had been replaced by an essentially random crew of replacements, none of whom had enough years to control their destiny. For some of them this was the first trip to Europe! As a result they collectivly comitted a huge faux pas.
The point I think I've made is that giving crews draconion powers to arbitrarily ban people from travel would be a huge mistake.
As for the Alcohol Issue - How much research has been done on the combined effects of Alcohol from drinking, Mild hypoxia from pressurization/ac systems being run at half power, prior usage of ciggaretes, travel stress and claustrophobia? I did a chamber ride at Edwards AFB once and the person next to me become noticbly irritable and cranky as the altitude was 'increased'. I'm not defending Air Rage but their may be a subset of the population who can't cope with the environmental stresses of modern air travel if they've been drinking.
theRolfe
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
From: MAN
Flying back from Houston to the UK a couple of years ago, back in steerage, I was dismayed to see a big guy staggering drunkenly toward the aisle seat next to me.
For the next 11 hours he asked for, and was served, beers - 2 at a time. By the time we got to London he'd wet himself and was so drunk the flight attendant checked his pulse when she couldn't rouse him to put his seatbelt on.
I wrote to the airline about all this and their response, in essence, was that it was better for him to be comatose than causing trouble. I guess I agree, but I've always felt they missed the point somewhere.
For the next 11 hours he asked for, and was served, beers - 2 at a time. By the time we got to London he'd wet himself and was so drunk the flight attendant checked his pulse when she couldn't rouse him to put his seatbelt on.
I wrote to the airline about all this and their response, in essence, was that it was better for him to be comatose than causing trouble. I guess I agree, but I've always felt they missed the point somewhere.
Eight Gun Fighter
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 0
From: Western Approaches
The British authorities seem to have a reasonably effective method of dealing with football hooligans and preventing them from traveling to foreign punch-em-ups, sorry - sports meets. Surrender passports, report to your local police station on the day of the match etc.
Given the will, an enforcement strategy could be worked out for established air ragers. Individual airlines doing it solo, perhaps not. but take it to a higher level... ICAO, IATA, Interpol and maybe some controls could work.
Given the will, an enforcement strategy could be worked out for established air ragers. Individual airlines doing it solo, perhaps not. but take it to a higher level... ICAO, IATA, Interpol and maybe some controls could work.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
From: USA
To Captain James Bigglesworth and others who have reiterated his point, that there will never be an acceptable excuse for the intimidation or assaulting of crew or other passengers- Here, here!
These absolute plebs who conduct themselves in such a manner, spoil flights for hundreds of other passengers and degrade the quality of life in the workplace for aircrew around the world. Only a complete and utter imbecile would expect that this kind of behaviour could somehow remedy poor service or some other grievence!
The punishment should be swift, clear and effective and I quite agree with those of you who have suggested that (in extreme cases) they be banned from airline travel for life. This sends a clear, unambiguous message that their conduct will never be tolerated.
However, to exact justice and balance frivolous claims of "air rage", there needs to be an internationally recognized system in place, to judge individuals accused of breaching the peace, to preclude passengers ,and perhaps crew themselves, of being unfairly accused of misconduct.
Perhaps ICAO could legislate and administrate such a system?
[ 01 September 2001: Message edited by: CAVU ]
These absolute plebs who conduct themselves in such a manner, spoil flights for hundreds of other passengers and degrade the quality of life in the workplace for aircrew around the world. Only a complete and utter imbecile would expect that this kind of behaviour could somehow remedy poor service or some other grievence!
The punishment should be swift, clear and effective and I quite agree with those of you who have suggested that (in extreme cases) they be banned from airline travel for life. This sends a clear, unambiguous message that their conduct will never be tolerated.
However, to exact justice and balance frivolous claims of "air rage", there needs to be an internationally recognized system in place, to judge individuals accused of breaching the peace, to preclude passengers ,and perhaps crew themselves, of being unfairly accused of misconduct.
Perhaps ICAO could legislate and administrate such a system?
[ 01 September 2001: Message edited by: CAVU ]
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
From: up north
i agree alcohol should be banned, not just from on board aircraft, but also from departure lounges. Having long delays can only add to the situation. I also think that passengers should have the right to know exactly what is happening to their flight and not be fobbed off by ground staff who really don't care what happens to their passengers. The attitude seems to be "it's not my problem - see someone else". The crew then have to deal with angry passengers who will take out their frustration on the nearest person with a uniform on!
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Over consumption of alcoholic beverages before and during a flight is just one of the contributory factors in air rage incidents. However, IMHO all of these air rage problems really started increasing in number when airlines started to prohibit smoking on flights. How many of those people involved are smokers? Quite a lot I would imagine. Ten hours on an aircraft without the opportunity of "lighting up" is a very long time for some people to go without a cigarette; This increases anxiety levels, and coupled with the vast quantities of booze that is available which relaxes inhibitions, the result is air rage. In addition boredom, being treated like cattle, and the riff raff element that have access to air travel these days, are all contributory elements too. The answer? Well bring back smoking "zones" on flights (yes I know the smoke drifts around anyway!) or carry electic cow prods to maintain some discipline if things start to get out of hand!!
Rainbow Chaser
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 608
Likes: 0
From: At home, mostly!
I think Basil Fawlty raised an interesting issue. I have been flying as SLF for 30yrs now (OMG..am I really that old!!) and I can't recall air-rage as an issue in my early days of flying. I have been fortunate to fly both in Business aswell as Economy and rarely with charter airlines but on reflection it is only since airlines have banned smoking that incidents seem on the increase. Maybe the solution should be for all SLF to be asked at check-in if they are smokers and if they are for them to be issued a Nicotine patch...after all going "cold turkey" if you are a nicotine addict (add to that alcohol, maybe stress at flying if you are not a happy or frequent flier) must be hell!
I am an infrequent smoker these days -I used to smoke quite heavily but chose to not smoke several years back but still permit myself a cigarette when the occasion seems to create the demand! I am lucky - when I quit it was of my own volition! So many spend months trying to give up that when airlines require it instantly there is probably some medical situation brewing!
My apologies for a "from the gut" response, I am not a Dr but if there is one on pprune maybe he/she can give input here. This could be a/the solution!
I am an infrequent smoker these days -I used to smoke quite heavily but chose to not smoke several years back but still permit myself a cigarette when the occasion seems to create the demand! I am lucky - when I quit it was of my own volition! So many spend months trying to give up that when airlines require it instantly there is probably some medical situation brewing!
My apologies for a "from the gut" response, I am not a Dr but if there is one on pprune maybe he/she can give input here. This could be a/the solution!
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 577
Likes: 0
From: here to eternity
Airlines would be in a very tenuous position indeed if they started issuing drugs to people for whatever reason at all. Ever tried to get an aspirin on board?
I agree that refraining from smoking in-flight may well be an issue in some "air rage" cases.
However, I do not consider it an excuse for the sort of behaviour that we have been hearing about far too often.
Furthermore, (and I speak as a smoker myself) since everyone knows that the vast majority of airlines now an smoking, I would not have thought it was beyond the wit even of people like these to plan ahead and arm themselves with patches, gum, inhalers - whatever works for them.
Sorry - no sympathy with smoking as a "cause".
I agree that refraining from smoking in-flight may well be an issue in some "air rage" cases.
However, I do not consider it an excuse for the sort of behaviour that we have been hearing about far too often.
Furthermore, (and I speak as a smoker myself) since everyone knows that the vast majority of airlines now an smoking, I would not have thought it was beyond the wit even of people like these to plan ahead and arm themselves with patches, gum, inhalers - whatever works for them.
Sorry - no sympathy with smoking as a "cause".
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,477
Likes: 0
From: Newcastle/UK
Don't you think this could just be a reflection of western society in general?.
I get the impression that everyone is walking around in a perminent bad temper nowadays, people all seem loud and pushy no matter what the situation.
Just bump into someone in the street now and your liable to be involved in a slanging match,a few years ago, you would have both apologised and went on your way.
I get the impression that everyone is walking around in a perminent bad temper nowadays, people all seem loud and pushy no matter what the situation.
Just bump into someone in the street now and your liable to be involved in a slanging match,a few years ago, you would have both apologised and went on your way.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: Copenhagen
Well Air Rage certainly is fast becoming a major problem with the airlines. But can it be helped or are we generally flying a vast crowd of ill-behaving morons around the skies who are far beyond help ? Could be, but for the "borderliners" it might help if:
1) Staff, air and ground, are better trained to deal with these individuals. A psychology course might help.
2) Our passengers are fed true and accurate information at all times. Even if it might be embarrasing for the airline, the truth always wins in the end and will help to defuse a "hot" situation.
3) Banning alcohol, both in flight and in airports, is so far beyond my train of thought that it almost hurts. Punishing the masses because a few can't control themselves is not the solution in my opinion. But CC in particular should perhaps pay more attention to what they serve and to whom. Secondly, it could be ruled that all duty free must be surrendered at the gate and loaded below. At least this will stop people from drinking their own. But will it work operationally ? I doubt it ...
4) SPACE ! Yes, the bean-counters says it is not possible, but surely giving people back in steerage (often there myself) a bit more space will work wonders. I am not a particularly big or tall fellow, but on a charter "cattle transporter" even I am using a shoehorn to get in the seat.
5) Smoking. Right, I'm going to get flogged for this one but what the h*ll. On long-haul airlines should consider installing some kind of small cabins, sealed off from the rest of the cabin and with seperate air extractors, with enough space to hold 5-10 pax and a softdrink trolley.
Anybody here who thinks millions could be made if we started a "smokers only" airline and start flying, say, London-Hong Kong or Paris-Tokyo ? 2 classes only, smokers and heavy smokers
[ 02 September 2001: Message edited by: PsychoDad ]
1) Staff, air and ground, are better trained to deal with these individuals. A psychology course might help.
2) Our passengers are fed true and accurate information at all times. Even if it might be embarrasing for the airline, the truth always wins in the end and will help to defuse a "hot" situation.
3) Banning alcohol, both in flight and in airports, is so far beyond my train of thought that it almost hurts. Punishing the masses because a few can't control themselves is not the solution in my opinion. But CC in particular should perhaps pay more attention to what they serve and to whom. Secondly, it could be ruled that all duty free must be surrendered at the gate and loaded below. At least this will stop people from drinking their own. But will it work operationally ? I doubt it ...
4) SPACE ! Yes, the bean-counters says it is not possible, but surely giving people back in steerage (often there myself) a bit more space will work wonders. I am not a particularly big or tall fellow, but on a charter "cattle transporter" even I am using a shoehorn to get in the seat.
5) Smoking. Right, I'm going to get flogged for this one but what the h*ll. On long-haul airlines should consider installing some kind of small cabins, sealed off from the rest of the cabin and with seperate air extractors, with enough space to hold 5-10 pax and a softdrink trolley.
Anybody here who thinks millions could be made if we started a "smokers only" airline and start flying, say, London-Hong Kong or Paris-Tokyo ? 2 classes only, smokers and heavy smokers
[ 02 September 2001: Message edited by: PsychoDad ]
