View Poll Results: Should there be a separate frequency for practice distress calls instead of 121.5?
Yes (I am a professional pilot)
363
45.60%
No (I am a professional pilot)
240
30.15%
Yes (I am a recreational pilot)
79
9.92%
No (I am a recreational pilot)
78
9.80%
Don't know or don't care (I may or may not even be a pilot)
36
4.52%
Voters: 796. This poll is closed
Abuse on 121.5
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JamesTK - I did read your post thoroughly and indeed have re-read it but this is what made me think you were saying that you thought that chatter on 121.5 out over the Atlantic was OK:
It still reads as if that is what you think (at least that is the way it seems to me) so I'm sure you will understand my reaction to that idea. The information you supplied subsequently says that that isn't your meaning and I am very glad to hear it. I was very lucky and will always be very grateful to D&D and that Emirates pilot and also to the airfield FISO who followed all my calls even though unable to speak to or be heard by me.
Occasionally, i hear airline guys/girls chatting on 121.5. I don't think it's professional when around busy UK airspace, but mid-altantic etc. ???.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: U.K.
Age: 46
Posts: 3,112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OxfordFlyer, an excellent post.
I hope some of the anti brigade read it and realise that the world doesn't revolve around their monstrous egos!
The only time I've ever had call to do something about a transmission on 121.5 was when we heard an EPIRB signal whilst over the North Sea. It turned out to be nothing and had already been reported by other traffic, but it shows it pays to listen out!
Hearing practice pans etc. is just part and parcel of life. Getting steamed up about it is totally unnecessary, if listening to a few practice pans is whats required to get people happy using D&D, then so be it. It's a small price to pay.
I hope some of the anti brigade read it and realise that the world doesn't revolve around their monstrous egos!
The only time I've ever had call to do something about a transmission on 121.5 was when we heard an EPIRB signal whilst over the North Sea. It turned out to be nothing and had already been reported by other traffic, but it shows it pays to listen out!
Hearing practice pans etc. is just part and parcel of life. Getting steamed up about it is totally unnecessary, if listening to a few practice pans is whats required to get people happy using D&D, then so be it. It's a small price to pay.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,576
Received 431 Likes
on
227 Posts
Quoted from the UK AIS NOTAM webpages:
EGTT
COM : Q)EGTT/QCAXX/IV/B/E/000/999/5244N00038W100
FROM 07/03/06 14:38 TO 07/03/16 23:59 EST U0496/07
E)DUE TO CONTINUED UNSERVICEABILITIES PRACTICE EMERGENCY TRAINING FREQ 245.1 WILL BE UNAVAILABLE WITHIN: THE VALE OF YORK, LINCOLNSHIRE AND EAST ANGLIA. TRAINING FIXES AND PRACTICE EMERGENCIES CONTINUE TO BE ENCOURAGED AND SHOULD BE DECLARED ON EIITHER 243.0 OR 121.5.
So, note the words in bold type and go for it, folks!!
EGTT
COM : Q)EGTT/QCAXX/IV/B/E/000/999/5244N00038W100
FROM 07/03/06 14:38 TO 07/03/16 23:59 EST U0496/07
E)DUE TO CONTINUED UNSERVICEABILITIES PRACTICE EMERGENCY TRAINING FREQ 245.1 WILL BE UNAVAILABLE WITHIN: THE VALE OF YORK, LINCOLNSHIRE AND EAST ANGLIA. TRAINING FIXES AND PRACTICE EMERGENCIES CONTINUE TO BE ENCOURAGED AND SHOULD BE DECLARED ON EIITHER 243.0 OR 121.5.
So, note the words in bold type and go for it, folks!!
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 762
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HFGC1
I know what you mean. I even manage to confuse myself most of the time.
I agree with you and your your opinion on the help you recieved.
I am not supporting chatter. I was just curious that if you were a couple/few thousand miles from coastlines with VFR range, would anyone on the nearest coast pick it up. I was not sure that the chatterers were using thatas a reason why.
I will try and be a bit more clear. I was probably dealing with a student crying in my arms due to his/her lack of speed control on final.
I agree with you and your your opinion on the help you recieved.
I am not supporting chatter. I was just curious that if you were a couple/few thousand miles from coastlines with VFR range, would anyone on the nearest coast pick it up. I was not sure that the chatterers were using thatas a reason why.
I will try and be a bit more clear. I was probably dealing with a student crying in my arms due to his/her lack of speed control on final.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: At home
Age: 54
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As an intercontinental commercial pilot with over 10,000 hours flying experience I have never heard an actual distress call on 121.5.
It baffles me why people are so quick to get on their high horse and chastise someone for using a frequency that is there for everyones benefit.
As an industry we can only improve through our experiences, I believe everyone should have exposure to this service at least once in their career so they know it is an option should things hit the fan
Don't get me started on those trigger happy F**KHEADS ("You're on guard") who are happy to transmit on a frequency which they want to keep sterile.
If someone doesn't have the 5 seconds to wait for a transmission to cease before they transmit their own mayday then I seriously doubt that it'll be much help anyway.
It baffles me why people are so quick to get on their high horse and chastise someone for using a frequency that is there for everyones benefit.
As an industry we can only improve through our experiences, I believe everyone should have exposure to this service at least once in their career so they know it is an option should things hit the fan
Don't get me started on those trigger happy F**KHEADS ("You're on guard") who are happy to transmit on a frequency which they want to keep sterile.
If someone doesn't have the 5 seconds to wait for a transmission to cease before they transmit their own mayday then I seriously doubt that it'll be much help anyway.
I do wish that the CAT abusers of 121.5 would knock it off. It is not the place to get football scores and chat about the last layover.
For those folks from the UK who defend your local procedure that differs from the majority of the world, maybe you will remember this the next time you criticize another country that does things differently.
For those folks from the UK who defend your local procedure that differs from the majority of the world, maybe you will remember this the next time you criticize another country that does things differently.
Last edited by J.O.; 11th Mar 2007 at 01:56.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Portsmouth
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, when you get a bit more time in Stella, you probably will hear one! They do happen, and when they do they are urgent.
And, when you do, with luck it won't be obliterated by people asking for baseball scores or discussing how long their CEO is going to jail for DUI!
Coming off the Westbound tracks the other day, four consecutive aircraft, all registered well West of London, all managed to transmit their initial VHF calls to Gander on 121.5 instead of 126.9.
Some years ago my relays, for a light aircraft gliding down over Canada, were repeatedly stepped on by these, er, professionals!
So, as some of the PPLs on here keep repeatedly pointing out, sadly to very little effect, if those ATPLs who keep moaning about all the clutter on 121.5 would realise that they are by far the worst offenders, and do something about their own conduct, things would improve dramatically.
And, when you do, with luck it won't be obliterated by people asking for baseball scores or discussing how long their CEO is going to jail for DUI!
Coming off the Westbound tracks the other day, four consecutive aircraft, all registered well West of London, all managed to transmit their initial VHF calls to Gander on 121.5 instead of 126.9.
Some years ago my relays, for a light aircraft gliding down over Canada, were repeatedly stepped on by these, er, professionals!
So, as some of the PPLs on here keep repeatedly pointing out, sadly to very little effect, if those ATPLs who keep moaning about all the clutter on 121.5 would realise that they are by far the worst offenders, and do something about their own conduct, things would improve dramatically.
Perhaps it is time for D & D to start getting tough on the garulous pillocks who are abusing 121.5 over UK airspace.
They can get an instantaneous fix on the transmission and can identify the perpetrator almost as quickly. I can understand their reluctance to personally get involved in a major ar*ehole kicking contest since they are really there to save lives but perhaps they could pass the details on to the CAA automatically?
It wouldn't take long for the clever Dicks to realise that they are going to get caught and have to answer for their sins.
They can get an instantaneous fix on the transmission and can identify the perpetrator almost as quickly. I can understand their reluctance to personally get involved in a major ar*ehole kicking contest since they are really there to save lives but perhaps they could pass the details on to the CAA automatically?
It wouldn't take long for the clever Dicks to realise that they are going to get caught and have to answer for their sins.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Where its at
Posts: 297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It never fails to surprise me how emotive the subject of "frequency abuse" can become. I imagine though, that of course we wouldn't be the sort of people who became pilots if we didn't care so deeply about such things.
Maybe time to engage in some palliative self care and perhaps delay that incipient coronary event by calming down just a touch? Might even end up paying dividends come medical time.
There are far greater safety compromises in aviation than the continuance of "guard abuse." Besides, the nature of aviation is inherently muti-national and not every nationality is as concerened by this as others. I think we should live with it.
Could always take you mind off it by engaging in asome self-abuse..?
Maybe time to engage in some palliative self care and perhaps delay that incipient coronary event by calming down just a touch? Might even end up paying dividends come medical time.
There are far greater safety compromises in aviation than the continuance of "guard abuse." Besides, the nature of aviation is inherently muti-national and not every nationality is as concerened by this as others. I think we should live with it.
Could always take you mind off it by engaging in asome self-abuse..?
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well done OF, an eloquent and persuasive post. You have what appears to be a mature and realistic view of what common sense and safety in aviation is all about. I am, by the way, a current "CAP" as you call us. Good luck for the future.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: England
Posts: 488
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I suspect that some of the 121.5 police are the same folks who also abuse 123.45 on the ocean.
As a tanker pilot I am sometimes involved in "dragging" fighters across the Atlantic using air-to-air refuelling. This is usually done in several waves, each consisting of a tanker plus 3 or 4 fighters. Each wave is seperated by 30 mins in a block of airspace, typically around FL210-230. Comms with Oceanic control are often made awkward by the fact that HF cannot be used with fighters refuelling or in very close formation. I recall one occasion when the middle of 3 waves had to divert because a fighter could not take-on fuel due to turbulence in thick cloud. His tanker could not communicate with Oceanic control as the fighters had to be tucked in tight due to the cloud. The 3rd wave was about to enter the same cloud and needed to be warned. The lead tanker had manged to refuel all his "chicks" and had to take on responsibiltiy for co-ordinating the diversion with Gander. Despite each tanker having 2 UHF boxes, the communcations got very complex and we had to resort to passing some important information from lead to No 3 on 123.45. In the middle of this whole melee, comms were interrupted by a transmission that said "Say, haven't you bozos got your own frequency for all this". This was particularly annoying as we pictured it coming from someone sat up high above the weather with not much else to do. I'm guessing that we had interrupted the latest batch of rounders scores by using the frequency to pass operationally significant information. He was ignored.
However, a big thanks to all those of you who are glad to assist with some weather or a postion report relay, whilst plowing the NAT tracks. We sometimes have to shout for attention on 121.5 and then call you to 123.45 for help. It is invariably because refuelling or close formation in bad weather is preventing use of our own HF.
As a tanker pilot I am sometimes involved in "dragging" fighters across the Atlantic using air-to-air refuelling. This is usually done in several waves, each consisting of a tanker plus 3 or 4 fighters. Each wave is seperated by 30 mins in a block of airspace, typically around FL210-230. Comms with Oceanic control are often made awkward by the fact that HF cannot be used with fighters refuelling or in very close formation. I recall one occasion when the middle of 3 waves had to divert because a fighter could not take-on fuel due to turbulence in thick cloud. His tanker could not communicate with Oceanic control as the fighters had to be tucked in tight due to the cloud. The 3rd wave was about to enter the same cloud and needed to be warned. The lead tanker had manged to refuel all his "chicks" and had to take on responsibiltiy for co-ordinating the diversion with Gander. Despite each tanker having 2 UHF boxes, the communcations got very complex and we had to resort to passing some important information from lead to No 3 on 123.45. In the middle of this whole melee, comms were interrupted by a transmission that said "Say, haven't you bozos got your own frequency for all this". This was particularly annoying as we pictured it coming from someone sat up high above the weather with not much else to do. I'm guessing that we had interrupted the latest batch of rounders scores by using the frequency to pass operationally significant information. He was ignored.
However, a big thanks to all those of you who are glad to assist with some weather or a postion report relay, whilst plowing the NAT tracks. We sometimes have to shout for attention on 121.5 and then call you to 123.45 for help. It is invariably because refuelling or close formation in bad weather is preventing use of our own HF.
