View Poll Results: Should there be a separate frequency for practice distress calls instead of 121.5?
Yes (I am a professional pilot)
363
45.60%
No (I am a professional pilot)
240
30.15%
Yes (I am a recreational pilot)
79
9.92%
No (I am a recreational pilot)
78
9.80%
Don't know or don't care (I may or may not even be a pilot)
36
4.52%
Voters: 796. This poll is closed
Abuse on 121.5
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Hey Gert... do two... they're actually small.
I got "you're overhead Oundle" ... and I wasn't actually anywhere near Oundle, I was between Huntingdon and Grafham Water. I will bear this level of accuracy in mind if I ever have to call them up for real
(The other call that I heard whilst listening out for a couple of minutes before pressing the button was a call to "Excel operations" or somesuch.)
GtW, I heard your p.pan also and I'm sure the controller said that you were "indicating" over Oundle. Not sure, but I'd imagine that there is a limit to the accuracy of the VDF. If you weren't happy with the position report received, maybe you should have queried it and/or requested another (either via DF or radar). Happy flying.
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I'd imagine that there is a limit to the accuracy of the VDF.
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Boneman,
"Err...you need to practice a distress call because???"
What "Twilight Zone" are you in?
Even a total ignoramus like me has by now figured out from reading this thread, that in the UK a PAN call on 121.5 will get you a position fix within seconds, IF you make the correct call, and IF you can handle the reply in real time, something you don't learn from books.
So rather than flying into a stuffed hill while trying to figure out the procedure, you practice.
Not to mention (too many before me have done so) that the controllers also appreciate practicing, and prefer having somebody coming on the frequency already knowing what she/he is doing..... rather than commenting the football scores.
But then I expect you're the sort of person who doesn't know where you spare tyre is in your car.
"Err...you need to practice a distress call because???"
What "Twilight Zone" are you in?
Even a total ignoramus like me has by now figured out from reading this thread, that in the UK a PAN call on 121.5 will get you a position fix within seconds, IF you make the correct call, and IF you can handle the reply in real time, something you don't learn from books.
So rather than flying into a stuffed hill while trying to figure out the procedure, you practice.
Not to mention (too many before me have done so) that the controllers also appreciate practicing, and prefer having somebody coming on the frequency already knowing what she/he is doing..... rather than commenting the football scores.
But then I expect you're the sort of person who doesn't know where you spare tyre is in your car.
GtW, I know this is nothing to do with the main thread but, I had a chat with somebody who knows about such stuff and it turns out that your DF fix was well outside the required tolerance of the kit at D&D - it's being looked into.
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GtW, I know this is nothing to do with the main thread but, I had a chat with somebody who knows about such stuff and it turns out that your DF fix was well outside the required tolerance of the kit at D&D - it's being looked into.
On the only occasion my instructor did one ,some years ago, he made a point of reporting our position (a couple of miles different), probably to make the point we were not lost but it did also confirm the system was working to spec.
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RTO
The data published by the UK CAA does not support your argument.
You obviously do not fly in the UK either, if you did, you would hear that most of the cluttering of 121.5 is by CAT making inadvertent transmissions.
One of the main reasons for practice pans is controller training.
It is a shame that we continue to receive such uninformed postings as yours on this thread.
Il Duce
I doubt that anyone would argue with your point, but the question is who should pay for it?
And unfortunately it would not help the inadvertent transmissions whcih can trample other messages.
The data published by the UK CAA does not support your argument.
You obviously do not fly in the UK either, if you did, you would hear that most of the cluttering of 121.5 is by CAT making inadvertent transmissions.
One of the main reasons for practice pans is controller training.
It is a shame that we continue to receive such uninformed postings as yours on this thread.
Il Duce
I doubt that anyone would argue with your point, but the question is who should pay for it?
And unfortunately it would not help the inadvertent transmissions whcih can trample other messages.
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Final 3 Greens - dont expect a reasoned response from commercial pilots. For example
"How about if UK GA pilots would learn to navigate, instead of cluttering 121.5 with their endless chatter, perhaps causing aircraft monitoring to turn down the volume on their com2 hence rendering the emergency freq. useless" was posted by an ATPL but fails to accept that 90% of the endless chatter is from he and his ilk causing the problem in the first place. I have twice before posted on this thread asking why CAT cannot accept it is they who are causing 90% of the disruption but the ones posting here seem to have the old ostrich syndrome as far as CAT is concerned. 121.5 is of course the emergengy frequency and a LISTENING WATCH has to be maintained. It is NOT a general chat frequency and certainly any GA pilot in the UK who abused this even a fraction as much as does CAT would soon be "interviewed" by the appropraite department
"How about if UK GA pilots would learn to navigate, instead of cluttering 121.5 with their endless chatter, perhaps causing aircraft monitoring to turn down the volume on their com2 hence rendering the emergency freq. useless" was posted by an ATPL but fails to accept that 90% of the endless chatter is from he and his ilk causing the problem in the first place. I have twice before posted on this thread asking why CAT cannot accept it is they who are causing 90% of the disruption but the ones posting here seem to have the old ostrich syndrome as far as CAT is concerned. 121.5 is of course the emergengy frequency and a LISTENING WATCH has to be maintained. It is NOT a general chat frequency and certainly any GA pilot in the UK who abused this even a fraction as much as does CAT would soon be "interviewed" by the appropraite department
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annoying
IT is annoying to hear every kind of stuff on 121.5.
As we monitor this frequency all the time,it should be in my opinion used only for real emergencies.
finito
As we monitor this frequency all the time,it should be in my opinion used only for real emergencies.
finito
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I am almost scared to post on this thread
This may have been covered in the many relpies on the seven+ pages of posts.
What maybe not known by the irline comunity is that training organisations are encouraged by D+D to contact them by students (with an FI on board of course) for practise PANS. This IS fact and backed up by the CAA with their trainingcom publications concerning the competancy/understanding of RT.
It's not just for controller training, but for a new PPL to feel comfortable to contact 121.5 and ask for help.
Any of you on this thread who are FI's are undoubtably aware that sometimes students and pilots who are in a bit of difficulty would feel a little uneasy calling 121.5 due to the unwarrented fear they may end up in the tower of london for a year or two. This is exactly why it is encouraged that GA pilots contact them to understand that they are human at London Centre
Occasionally, i hear airline guys/girls chatting on 121.5. I don't think it's professional when around busy UK airspace, but mid-altantic etc. ???.
What maybe not known by the irline comunity is that training organisations are encouraged by D+D to contact them by students (with an FI on board of course) for practise PANS. This IS fact and backed up by the CAA with their trainingcom publications concerning the competancy/understanding of RT.
It's not just for controller training, but for a new PPL to feel comfortable to contact 121.5 and ask for help.
Any of you on this thread who are FI's are undoubtably aware that sometimes students and pilots who are in a bit of difficulty would feel a little uneasy calling 121.5 due to the unwarrented fear they may end up in the tower of london for a year or two. This is exactly why it is encouraged that GA pilots contact them to understand that they are human at London Centre
Occasionally, i hear airline guys/girls chatting on 121.5. I don't think it's professional when around busy UK airspace, but mid-altantic etc. ???.
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Working Hard
Thanks for your support.
I do think that have a good number of reasonable and balanced replies from CAT here.
The poll numbers are interesting too. 40% of professionals think there should be only one frequency.
Unfortunately people like RTO give the wrong impression; then again, RTO may not be a airline pilot.
As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.
ibelieveicanfly
When I fly in France, I am really uncomfortable with mixed languages being used at an airport, parc que je parle votre langue comme une vache Espagnol and my SA is degraded.
However, France filed a difference with ICAO and we should all respect that and realise that that is the way things are done in your country, taking that much more care to deal with the situation.
Equally, you need to take a similar view in the UK.
Maybe one day, everyone will agree to remove all the differences and make all of our lives a little easier.
Thanks for your support.
I do think that have a good number of reasonable and balanced replies from CAT here.
The poll numbers are interesting too. 40% of professionals think there should be only one frequency.
Unfortunately people like RTO give the wrong impression; then again, RTO may not be a airline pilot.
As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.
ibelieveicanfly
When I fly in France, I am really uncomfortable with mixed languages being used at an airport, parc que je parle votre langue comme une vache Espagnol and my SA is degraded.
However, France filed a difference with ICAO and we should all respect that and realise that that is the way things are done in your country, taking that much more care to deal with the situation.
Equally, you need to take a similar view in the UK.
Maybe one day, everyone will agree to remove all the differences and make all of our lives a little easier.
Avoid imitations
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This has been mentioned before but some contributors obviously can't read. or don't want to listen....
The UK filed a difference with ICAO because it has auto-triangulation on 121.5Mhz. Other member states don't have this facility.
121.5 was in use today over UK. It was London Centre repeatedly (and I think unsuccessfully) trying to contact a 'Delta' callsign who obviously wasn't listening out on his allocated freq. It was a little inconvenient because I was trying to receive transmissions on a busy VHF box 1 at the time, in order to negotiate a transit of 'rapidly approaching' controlled airspace under IFR, in very turbulent conditions with a 65 kt tailwind.
Only a little inconvenient. I turned down the volume. When I had received my clearance......... guess what? I turned it UP again.
Maybe some of these whinging cojos could find the mental capacity to do the same, or get another job they can cope with.
The UK filed a difference with ICAO because it has auto-triangulation on 121.5Mhz. Other member states don't have this facility.
121.5 was in use today over UK. It was London Centre repeatedly (and I think unsuccessfully) trying to contact a 'Delta' callsign who obviously wasn't listening out on his allocated freq. It was a little inconvenient because I was trying to receive transmissions on a busy VHF box 1 at the time, in order to negotiate a transit of 'rapidly approaching' controlled airspace under IFR, in very turbulent conditions with a 65 kt tailwind.
Only a little inconvenient. I turned down the volume. When I had received my clearance......... guess what? I turned it UP again.
Maybe some of these whinging cojos could find the mental capacity to do the same, or get another job they can cope with.
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The slant view...
'The UK is the only state to deem its private pilots so incompetent as to need to practise using a nanny service to provide them with assistance when they find themselves in trouble'...
Cat, these are pigeons; pigeons, meet the cat...
'The UK is the only state to deem its private pilots so incompetent as to need to practise using a nanny service to provide them with assistance when they find themselves in trouble'...
Cat, these are pigeons; pigeons, meet the cat...
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'The UK is the only state to deem its private pilots so incompetent as to need to practise using a nanny service to provide them with assistance when they find themselves in trouble'...
Nonsense. The UK 121.5 service just offers some more functionality than the others and the controllers require more practice thus D&D request for PPS and TFs.
BTW it is also used to assist commercial traffic in distress, not all CAT is shiny tubes at FL350.
I wish people would stop trying to stir the muck up here, we all fly in the same skies and GA is contributing little clutter on .5 according to the data.
Nonsense. The UK 121.5 service just offers some more functionality than the others and the controllers require more practice thus D&D request for PPS and TFs.
BTW it is also used to assist commercial traffic in distress, not all CAT is shiny tubes at FL350.
I wish people would stop trying to stir the muck up here, we all fly in the same skies and GA is contributing little clutter on .5 according to the data.
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Shy Torque: Yes, quite right - you can turn it down and up!! Well said.
Burgerbun you are a disgrace to our profession with an attitude like that.
121.5 Police: Keep it buttonned - you never know when you'll need it - it may not be just the " __________ " (insert your appropriate foreign language) chatting away, but a real emergency, you dopes!
Keep up the practice pans they may save lives.
Capt Canesten
Burgerbun you are a disgrace to our profession with an attitude like that.
121.5 Police: Keep it buttonned - you never know when you'll need it - it may not be just the " __________ " (insert your appropriate foreign language) chatting away, but a real emergency, you dopes!
Keep up the practice pans they may save lives.
Capt Canesten
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Occasionally, i hear airline guys/girls chatting on 121.5. I don't think it's professional when around busy UK airspace, but mid-altantic etc. ???.
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HGFC
You obviuosly did not read my post properly.
It's great that someone picked up your call. They may not have done if someone was chatting away. I put three ??? after the comment because I was not sure how widespread the chatter is over atlantic etc. Or the view of D+D about that.
It's been clearly put by someone before with evidence from the CAA to back it up that pract. pans take 1% and un-necessary chatter 75%. It's funny that the debate on this thread by some (not you HGFC) still are agruing the point.
How VHF works ? Does that mean Very High Flight to pick up the signal
It's great that someone picked up your call. They may not have done if someone was chatting away. I put three ??? after the comment because I was not sure how widespread the chatter is over atlantic etc. Or the view of D+D about that.
It's been clearly put by someone before with evidence from the CAA to back it up that pract. pans take 1% and un-necessary chatter 75%. It's funny that the debate on this thread by some (not you HGFC) still are agruing the point.
How VHF works ? Does that mean Very High Flight to pick up the signal
Last edited by jamestkirk; 5th Mar 2007 at 11:44.