Cathay Management Captain fails to remove gear pin!
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Cathay Management Captain fails to remove gear pin!
49+3 Cathay pilots were sacked on July 9th. Yes, 1 was reinstated as an F.O. for two years. The others did nothing wrong and management have told them that they don't have to be given a reason for their termination of employment. Yet an upper management Captain, Lick Fly, from Brisbaine Australia, on doing a walk around, failed to notice that a gear pin was still in place on one of the landing gear. This pin prevented the particular gear from being retracted after take-off. Now, if there had been an engine failure after V1, the 777 might not have been able to achieve the climb performance required to clear obstacles on departure due to the extra drag...and this clown still has a job, yet 49+3-1 don't and they did nothing wrong. These are the kind of idiots the Cathay Pilots are working with.
Another manager defended him in saying that there was no problem with obstacle clearance from that particular airport, but what about the next time when max climb performance is required?
[ 13 August 2001: Message edited by: busdriver25 ]
[ 13 August 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Towers ]
[ 16 August 2001: Message edited by: busdriver25 ]
[ 16 August 2001: Message edited by: busdriver25 ]
Another manager defended him in saying that there was no problem with obstacle clearance from that particular airport, but what about the next time when max climb performance is required?
[ 13 August 2001: Message edited by: busdriver25 ]
[ 13 August 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Towers ]
[ 16 August 2001: Message edited by: busdriver25 ]
[ 16 August 2001: Message edited by: busdriver25 ]
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Why should any airline want people with your attitude crewing their aircraft? A safety hazard for sure....and the potential for acrimony when new-hire folks show up? Where's the professionalism you union boys always go on about?
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Come on ironbutt, that's a pretty unfair and unprofessional opinion you've posted there. Busdriver has raised a VALID question of the ethics of a management that will summarily dismiss 52 pilots with NO reason, allow one to return because he inadvertently mis-read his roster - but punish him ny downgrading him back to F/O.
Yet when one of their own is derelict in his duty - a pre-flight external check is part of a pilot's duty - the repercussions of which could be catastrophic (remember Concorde's crash, because of the inability to raise their gear?), not forgetting the compulsory return to land, which would have added tens of thousands of dollars to the cost of that flight, NO ACTION is taken.
As much as you despise them, ironbutt, this incident demonstrates the NEED for some employees to have unions which can offer support for their members from unscrupulous, vindictive employers. There is no need for the pilots of CX to consider leaving, this current CX management has just about run their course!
Yet when one of their own is derelict in his duty - a pre-flight external check is part of a pilot's duty - the repercussions of which could be catastrophic (remember Concorde's crash, because of the inability to raise their gear?), not forgetting the compulsory return to land, which would have added tens of thousands of dollars to the cost of that flight, NO ACTION is taken.
As much as you despise them, ironbutt, this incident demonstrates the NEED for some employees to have unions which can offer support for their members from unscrupulous, vindictive employers. There is no need for the pilots of CX to consider leaving, this current CX management has just about run their course!
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We aren't comparing apples with apples here. Notwithstanding the 49+3-1, are we really asking for the dismissal of somebody who makes a mistake in his checks? Step forward all those that have made a mistake......hmmm looks like a straight line to me!
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OK - time for a management consultant (pause whilst you all hawk, spit and swear) to add his two euro worth....
I spent years working in the wings business, (non-air crew), and now work with a multitude of organisations trying to make them work better - many of these organisations are aircraft operators/builders/maintainers.
I have recently - thanks to reasons I won't disclose here - seen aspects of CX from the inside. There is a very sad lack of team work in this organisation - one half of flight crew despises the other half, and everyone else seems to despise ALL the flight crew....
If those guys and girls don't start to accept that they are ALL part of the same organisation, with the same aims and objectives - I predict that there will be a good number of 330s, 340s, 777s and 744s going up for sale soon. You CANNOT run a successful organisation where there are such bitter divides for long.
Sort it CX - or get thee to the job centres.
TA
I spent years working in the wings business, (non-air crew), and now work with a multitude of organisations trying to make them work better - many of these organisations are aircraft operators/builders/maintainers.
I have recently - thanks to reasons I won't disclose here - seen aspects of CX from the inside. There is a very sad lack of team work in this organisation - one half of flight crew despises the other half, and everyone else seems to despise ALL the flight crew....
If those guys and girls don't start to accept that they are ALL part of the same organisation, with the same aims and objectives - I predict that there will be a good number of 330s, 340s, 777s and 744s going up for sale soon. You CANNOT run a successful organisation where there are such bitter divides for long.
Sort it CX - or get thee to the job centres.
TA
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There is a problem with this story. Why should the Captain be held responsible for a gear pin? That's a ramp service or maintenance function to pull the gear pins after push back.
What's next? The Captain will be held responsible to check tire pressures?
Helloooo.
What's next? The Captain will be held responsible to check tire pressures?
Helloooo.
ZbV
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Sooooh Bus25... A Cripple7 I can see from your profile that you fly the SCAREBUS A340. I have been told that A340 has best rate of climb in the " Aircraft equipped with 5 APU's " category 
If it ain't Boeing I ain't going.
I can see from your profile that you fly the SCAREBUS A340. I have been told that A340 has best rate of climb in the " Aircraft equipped with 5 APU's " category If it ain't Boeing I ain't going.
Grandpa Aerotart
IB57/BHP,
You tossers! In an airline with good staff relations and mutual professional respect an honest mistake like this can be let go with a simple "you silly bugger, bet you won't do that again!".
When Management,including presumably Management Pilots(or some of them anyway) have just sacked 50+ for no good reason then this sort of stuff up takes on a whole new dimension.
Chuck.
You tossers! In an airline with good staff relations and mutual professional respect an honest mistake like this can be let go with a simple "you silly bugger, bet you won't do that again!".
When Management,including presumably Management Pilots(or some of them anyway) have just sacked 50+ for no good reason then this sort of stuff up takes on a whole new dimension.
Chuck.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
"I say sack him, sack him, and sack him again, and boil his balls in oil..." - somewhat extreme isn't it exeng. I'm sure you meant FRY!
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I thought that all Captains were management?You know - privileges based on Command, etc. etc. Senior First officers are Captains in waiting and all that... 
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Through difficulties to the cinema
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Through difficulties to the cinema
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Dear Glue Ball,
As part of our walk around, we are to check that all gear pins are removes and they should be in the cockpit. The one you're thinking of during pushback is the ground engineer's gear pin to disable nose wheel steeping for the tug. The Captain did the walk around in this instance, so he was responsible for checking that the main and nose wheel gera pins were removed and present in the cockpit. I hope this clarifies things for you.
[ 14 August 2001: Message edited by: busdriver25 ]
[ 14 August 2001: Message edited by: busdriver25 ]
As part of our walk around, we are to check that all gear pins are removes and they should be in the cockpit. The one you're thinking of during pushback is the ground engineer's gear pin to disable nose wheel steeping for the tug. The Captain did the walk around in this instance, so he was responsible for checking that the main and nose wheel gera pins were removed and present in the cockpit. I hope this clarifies things for you.
[ 14 August 2001: Message edited by: busdriver25 ]
[ 14 August 2001: Message edited by: busdriver25 ]
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Um, just as an aside, you can't check tyre pressures by sight, a tyre can be 50% down on pressure and still look exactly the same as its correct pressure neighbour. Touching the tyre after taxy in may show excessive heat due to low inflation (a la Boeing manual), but on a walk round you can only check the condition of a tyre. Anyway, its nice to see the management consultants talk as much crap as they used to in CX.
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Well I guess if I did the walk round and failed to spot a bloody great gear pin and flag still in - I would have little option to accept to the bollocking and my dismissal with all the aplomb I could muster. However there but for the grace of God etc...
MG
MG
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The check of tyres on walkaround is for a VISUAL check of condition and tread. the only way to check for correct pressure is by tyre pressure gauges on each wheel, if fitted, or an engineer with pressure gauge.
Kicking a tyre proves nothing and is hard on your shoes but may impress passengers observing such a practice
Taxying first off after a cold sit overnight gives a good indication of the thickness and rigidity of a tyre as the aircraft "limps" along the taxyway.
On the other hand the pins are VISIBLE.
Kicking a tyre proves nothing and is hard on your shoes but may impress passengers observing such a practice
Taxying first off after a cold sit overnight gives a good indication of the thickness and rigidity of a tyre as the aircraft "limps" along the taxyway.
On the other hand the pins are VISIBLE.
Controversial, moi?
As I wasn't there I will not comment except to say that if a line pilot had made the same error would you all be baying for blood then?
Exeng
I presume that you are referring to the Concorde incident when it arrived with rather less fuel than was prudent. If you are then you are being disingenuous, you well know that the management pilot concerned left the airline very shortly afterwards.
Exeng
I presume that you are referring to the Concorde incident when it arrived with rather less fuel than was prudent. If you are then you are being disingenuous, you well know that the management pilot concerned left the airline very shortly afterwards.
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Something over 20 years ago we took off from HKG at night and couldn't get one of the legs up on a Classic (BA). Not very nice going out through the gap at night, but who said the job was easy? After an hour, we gave up and landed back to find a wire coat hangar in the lock. The Ground Engineers had changed a wheel and substituted a coat hangar and forgotten to remove it. The F/E missed it 10 feet up buried under the wing in the dark. I subsequently found HE was held redponsible, and his subsequent interview involved a lot of shouting and throwing of books, and the implicit threat that that was his last life and any further incidents would involve dismissal. So it is plain to me that it shows where the responsibility lies, and on aircraft without F/Es, that responsibility must devolve to the Captain, who has shown himself to be a simpering toad who should be sacked and join his many colleagues on the unemployment line! Sadly the F/E died a few years later- RIP Brian my friend- management pilots are sent to try us!