QF Copilot Takes Command After Captain's 'Anxiety Attack'

[Airbubba]

Anxious pilot restrained as Qantas passenger jet landed

Stephen Moynihan
November 8, 2006

THE pilot of a jet carrying 177 passengers was suffering from anxiety and stress when he was restrained from flying his plane as it landed at Melbourne Airport last year.

The captain of the Qantas Boeing 767-300 aircraft reported feeling unwell soon after take-off from Auckland, New Zealand, on May 12. An Australian Transport Safety Bureau report on the incident says the captain left the flight deck and was given oxygen after telling cabin crew he felt nauseous and shaky.

The co-pilot took control of the jet over the Tasman Sea and alerted air traffic control and organised for an ambulance to meet the plane on landing in Melbourne.

A flight attendant was posted inside the cockpit to monitor the condition of the co-pilot.

Before the plane landed, the pilot returned to the cockpit. The report says: "His seat, seatbelt and harness were adjusted so that he could not inadvertently interfere with the operation of the aircraft."

The plane landed safely. The pilot was treated by paramedics at the airport and admitted to hospital.

The pilot told investigators he had a been suffering anxiety problems for several years, but they were not related to his work.

The pilot was taking anti-depressants for his condition and was also undergoing treatment for hypertension.

He also reported sleeping poorly the night before the flight and suffering from a sinus infection.

The investigation found the pilot's anxiety may be have risen from low blood pressure because of his medication, fatigue and a head cold.

The Civil Aviation Safety Authority was aware of the pilot's condition before the flight and his ability to fly was constantly monitored.

Australian and International Pilots Association general manager Peter Somerville said airlines monitored the mental health of pilots, but more education was needed.

"I'm confident there are sufficient support structures in place. Dealing with these problems and the more we are educated about them, the safer we will be," Mr Somerville said.

Qantas would not comment on the incident.


http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...61685133.html#


Here is the ATSB report:

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/...503921_001.pdf

[jondc9]

was the pilot taking anti depression drugs during this inflight episode or started treatment afterwards?

[vapilot2004]

Poor guy - He's not alone either......

This is a good example of the profitable doping of otherwise normal healthy people, sanctioned by well-meaning but ill-informed doctors gone terribly wrong. These over-medicated folks may need only a few changes in life, spiritural guidance or perhaps just some time to heal emotionally.

I have met few people who have actually been helped by such medications. Many many more have had numerous disturbing episodes on these drugs. Quaking hands, nervous ticks, loss of libido, thoughts of suicide and uncharacteristic violent outbursts are just a few 'side effects' of the many drugs out there.

The likes of Merck et al cannot even say how these drugs work specifically in the brain but it can be clearly shown how the sales of same affect their bottom lines. We have survived modern life just fine without these chemical concoctions for many decades. Why should we submit ourselves to these unknowns now. It is a crap shoot and the cost is losing our friends and family's sanity.

/rant with apologies. It is a sore subject for me.

I offer my best wishes to our doped Captain and wish him a speedy trip back to normalcy and the left seat - perferably sans-ADs.

[QDMQDMQDM]

This is a good example of the profitable doping of otherwise normal healthy people, sanctioned by well-meaning but ill-informed doctors gone terribly wrong. These over-medicated folks may need only a few changes in life, spiritural guidance or perhaps just some time to heal emotionally.

Look, this is utter garbage, as is the rest of your post and you clearly know nothing whatsoever about mental health.

Anyway, that aside, the important issue here is how this chap was cleared for flying in such a state. I am surprised that he was allowed to keep his Class 1 while on antidepressants.

QDM

[vapilot2004]

Apologies for having ruffled your sensibilities on this subject.....

Originally Posted by QDMQDMQDM

Look, this is utter garbage, as is the rest of your post and you clearly know nothing whatsoever about mental health.
QDM

You are quite correct, QDM3X, I am not a mental health professional but I can count two degreed members of that profession in my extended family and two more as close friends with all but one in agreement with me.

In study after study, a majority of anti-depressant patients reported familial, social and workplace relationships that suffered from the drugs effects on them. Those that chose counseling and lifestyle changes over drugs were more likely to have fewer problems in recovery and had a better chance at long-term un-medicated happiness.

As to my last point about the understanding of how these drugs operate on the human brain, please, do some research and you will find that the drug manufacturers and scientists do not know precisely how these chemicals interact with our brains. Tis a mystery.

Due to my own obfuscations, my original point may have not been clear and I apologise. I was merely trying say that alternate methods of dealing with depression should be seriously discussed before rolling the dice on these easy-out MAOI, SSRI and even the new generation 'mental miracle' drugs.

I would be happy to entertain your thoughts in a different thread or by PM. Thread option would surely be more entertaining.

Again, I do apologise for my stand on this subject.

[Nov71]

1. You don't treat acute anxiety (panic) attacks with O2 but by re-breathing CO2 from a paper bag, but CC at 35K ft are not medics
2. Some ADs can be used for low mood & life changing events eg close personal loss, but if for chronic clinical depression IMO the guy should be excused flying until passed fit for duty by a qualified medic (not me)

[remoak]

I'm not at all sure that "acute anxiety attack" properly describes what happened to this guy - more a confluence of several factors that peaked at the same time.

I'm also not sure that automatically grounding someone with his symptoms is a smart move, as all you are doing is multiplying the stress by ten. Good monitoring and careful self-regulation are surely a better method. In this case, the pilot appears to have recognised the onset of a problem and acted to remove himself from the equation - seems a professional approach to me (although with hindsight, he probably shouldn't have reported for duty - hindsight being the wonderful thing that it is...

[FakePilot]

Originally Posted by vapilot2004

These over-medicated folks may need only a few changes in life, spiritural guidance or perhaps just some time to heal emotionally.

I think what you're trying to convey is that drugs are sometimes used when not necessary. I'd believe that. Good doctors try the things you've suggested, and then resort to drugs. Even then, they still try to incorporate life style changes. But sometimes the medicines are necessary.

[priapism]

Wouldn't be a scientologist would we vapilot2004? You sound just like that other famous pilot Tom Cruise and spout forth the samev scientologist line towards any medication involving mental health.

I have seen anti depressants work with very good results. There are underlying pathophysiologcal reasons for their use. You obviously are aware of afflicted pilot's complete medical history to have been able to make such comments.

And yes I am a health professional and one who deals with the mentally ill, including acutely depressed patients on a regular basis.

[172driver]

Now just imagine this same scenario on board an SAA a/c with one of those new Multi-Crew licenced pilots in the RHS

Details here: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=244114

[Re-Heat]

Originally Posted by vapilot2004

In study after study, a majority of anti-depressant patients reported familial, social and workplace relationships that suffered from the drugs effects on them. Those that chose counseling and lifestyle changes over drugs were more likely to have fewer problems in recovery and had a better chance at long-term un-medicated happiness.

Are you Tom Cruise? Fool.

[crew the screw]

Hind sight 20/20

For me the issues are
1) The guy was flying the aircraft (Incharge at least) Yes he could have not reported, been on different drugs or visiting a 'happy camp'
2) He identified the situation he was in, told the F/o and CCm took himself to the back and dealt with it.
3) As for his return to the FD... I think it was sensationalised a wee bit when he was restrained etc, He was probably locked into his straps and moved back in the rails slightly. So now we have an experienced guy back in the loop, Nobody knows here what his state was. Maybe feeling Hunkey Dorey?(in good health, well as good as when he reported.)

IMveryHO.. Flight deck and Cabin proceedures worked here. Maybe not all the others like type of medical treatment, Self restrain in not reporting.

Hooray for SOPs and I wish the captain a speedy recovery, and hope the F/o enjoyed the single pilot ride home (come on we've all wished to have a go at one time?)

Posted from a Flight deck point of view not meant to deal with the medicine issue

Crew

[rmac]

One of my colleagues, in a senior management position, and a highly stressfull job, was suffering from depression last year. He was put on medication, and appeared to recover, although missing his zest for life, and his formerly high energy levels.

The general thought was that he could be counselled and assisted back to full health.

We recently tasked him to lead a team on a performance audit in West Africa. En-route he went home to visit his family in Jo'Burg and while there retired to the wine cellar, drank a half bottle of his finest...and shot himself !

At least he wasn't flying a 767 at the time.

[vapilot2004]

Originally Posted by Re-Heat

Are you Tom Cruise? Fool.

My true identity has been revealed. And no I am not gay.

[vapilot2004]

I give up - this will be my last post on this subject...

Originally Posted by priapism

Wouldn't be a scientologist would we vapilot2004?

Nah. But I have heard of the stuff. Sounds interesting.

I have seen anti depressants work with very good results.

Point taken, my good Dr. P. I have no doubt that many are helped by you and the drugs you prescribed and you are the expert, not I.

But let me ask you this: Have you ever observed unfavourable results with any of your patients ? Any suicides (attempts or successes) or uncharacteristic violent episodes among them?

I have read at least a half dozen very telling university research papers (surprisingly not funded by the drug companies) regarding the bad side and other unknowns regarding these classes of drugs. Can I have a few copies sent your way?

[Anotherflapoperator]

Originally Posted by rmac

One of my colleagues, in a senior management position, and a highly stressfull job, was suffering from depression last year. He was put on medication, and appeared to recover, although missing his zest for life, and his formerly high energy levels.

The general thought was that he could be counselled and assisted back to full health.

We recently tasked him to lead a team on a performance audit in West Africa. En-route he went home to visit his family in Jo'Burg and while there retired to the wine cellar, drank a half bottle of his finest...and shot himself !

At least he wasn't flying a 767 at the time.

His family wouldn't have another bottle of that stuff to send to Willie Walsh would they?

[Captain Sensible]

Can't, musn't hold Class 1 Medical and fly whilst on anti-depressants, no way, period end of story. One is ill, like any other illness, one goes away for a few months, gets fixed, regains the Medical and continues flying.

[rmac]

Apparently not Captain S. We were pretty sure that our colleague was "fixed", before he shot himself.

Just from that short and personal exposure with its nasty ending, despite all the help and apparent return to health, as well as contact with a former military colleague, who confirms that he also cracked under highly stressful military ops some 15 years ago, it would appear that the whole business is highly unpredictable.

My vote....psychological illness + pills = never, ever fly another transport aircraft again.

[Taildragger67]

From the ATSB report:

The CASA approach is in line with that recommended by the Aerospace Medical Association (AsMA). For example, a 2004 AsMA position paper on Aeromedical Regulation of Aviators Using Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors for Depressive Disorders proposes that an aeromedical protocol be adopted by aviation certificatory and regulatory authorities to remove absolute prohibitions against pilots flying while taking SSRIs. The reasons that AsMA gave for this proposal included evidence that:

• professional pilots may refuse SSRI medication and continue to fly without undergoing treatment appropriate for their medical condition in order to avoid being grounded
• a significant number of US professional pilots take SSRI medication while continuing to fly without informing the US Federal Aviation Administration
• the use of SSRIs has little or no detrimental effect in automobile, bus, and truck drivers.

In 2005, CASA undertook a retrospective case-control study in order to evaluate the safety of the policy of certifying aircrew and air traffic controllers based on meeting set criteria while using antidepressants. The study matched data collected by CASA medical staff from 1993 to 2004 with de-identified data for aviation accidents and incidents collected by the Australian Transport Safety Bureau for the same period.

The report of the validation study, Antidepressant usage and civilian aviation activity in Australia 1993-2004: An assessment of policy for the management of aircrew and air traffic controllers taking antidepressant medication, was released by CASA in September 2005. The report concluded that current CASA policy was appropriate and that there were no safety concerns relating to the practice.

(Bold emphasis added)

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/...503921_001.pdf

If I might advance a theory – one suspects that the ATSB is wary of the following scenario:
pilot feeling a bit down, goes to the doc and has a chat; doc then says “here, take these pills” – pilot says “thanks but no thanks, that’ll get me grounded, and under doctor-patient privilege you’re not to say anything about this to anyone”. Pilot then gets behind the wheel and decides some time later that it’s all of no use and it’s time to end it all; just happens to have a few hundred souls strapped in behind him/her at the time. Or, they blank out somehow = similar outcome.

Instead, the idea is to get them to come forward, have the condition known about, monitored and managed. Hence less risk of a downward spiral (figurative and literal). This guy did just that.

IMHO, VAPilot is simply stating modern medical practice (no, I’m not a doc, but have several good friends who are who tell me this) – don’t just manage the symptoms, manage the disease – ie. the causes. For example, if a smoker has a hacking cough, that can be masked by various preparations; but a better long-term outcome might be achieved by the patient stopping smoking…

[picu]

I'm not sure how precise the newspaper report quoted is (they seldom are), but if the incident happened "soon after take off" from Auckland, why didn't the F/O turn the aircraft back to Auckland?
A pilot incapacitation can become a serious issue - effectively, like an engine failure on a 2 engine aircraft, if the second one goes, you're f*****

The above is obviously mentioned without any knowledge of weather conditions on the day in Auckland etc........just a thought.