Air Crash Nigeria
The Cooler King
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Up to their old tricks I see....already blaming the pilot who can sadly no longer stand up for himself.
I'm afraid this accident will probably be no different than the others in this region. A media opportunity for some, a sh!tload of empty promises immediately after the incident, another bucketload of lies as to why it happened, expendable people fired or dead people blamed and then as quickly as the whole thing happened......forgotten.
I'm afraid this accident will probably be no different than the others in this region. A media opportunity for some, a sh!tload of empty promises immediately after the incident, another bucketload of lies as to why it happened, expendable people fired or dead people blamed and then as quickly as the whole thing happened......forgotten.
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Passenger manifest
I removed the manifest myself, rather than a moderator. It is hard for me to understand a mentality of Western people. For us, wild Russians, it is normally to provide such kind of information, if it is available.
Sorry!
Sorry!
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One thing I learnt when I attended IFALPA Accident Analaysis meetings was regardless where in the world pilots are based and trained, they go to work to complete their daily task and would like to get home safely to their families. The standard of their training, level of experience etc. falls on the management and on what they are prepared to invest in safety, and this being overseen by their Governmental Department ensuring these issues. It is just so easy to blame the pilots. It also makes it easy for those of us who have the luxury of working for airlines who do invest heavily in their crews to smirk at the less fortunate and their operation.
For 'armada' with reference to the Nationair DC8 in Jeddah, there was a lot more behind the crew defferring the bald tyres.......locked stores, couldn't find key, heavy penalties being incurred for delays....pressure, pressure and more pressure on the crew to take the aircraft.
RIP to all
For 'armada' with reference to the Nationair DC8 in Jeddah, there was a lot more behind the crew defferring the bald tyres.......locked stores, couldn't find key, heavy penalties being incurred for delays....pressure, pressure and more pressure on the crew to take the aircraft.
RIP to all
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dear FLOWN IT
the 737 in question was not one of the "BUBBA JETS", and had the newer equipment and -17's.
I posted that earlier in this thread, did you see it or is danny up to his tricks?
regards
jon
PS> Two things come to mind beyond bad wx and associated windshear/microburst etc.
incorrect loading/flap setting for takeoff ( and not zero, just insufficent)
or
flap retraction at too low a speed (failing to ''bug me up'' as it were)
one picture I saw show the stab trim at almost full nose up, as if compensating for improper flaps?
the 737 in question was not one of the "BUBBA JETS", and had the newer equipment and -17's.
I posted that earlier in this thread, did you see it or is danny up to his tricks?
regards
jon
PS> Two things come to mind beyond bad wx and associated windshear/microburst etc.
incorrect loading/flap setting for takeoff ( and not zero, just insufficent)
or
flap retraction at too low a speed (failing to ''bug me up'' as it were)
one picture I saw show the stab trim at almost full nose up, as if compensating for improper flaps?
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Person Of Interest
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FO JJ,
Grow up and speak when you know what you are speaking about.
F4F, Sorry you are not up to African aviation...it has nothing to do with Nigeria, only perceptions that the 1st world (Europe, USA) is far better than the 3rd world.
Guess you don't remember all of the accidents in the 50's and 60's in the USA involving WW2 "Skippers" who knew it all, but operated on the edge of the envelope.
Remember Capt HT "Dick" Merrill from EAL, and many, many others like him?
Nigeria didn't even have a/c then.
I've flown in Africa extensively including Nigeria, and it's the knowledge of the pilot, not the infrastructure that makes the difference.
Try an NDB over water at night into Tunis with ATC that speaks only "Aviation English": "Roger, report overhead".
Nigerian pilots are fine as far as I'm concerned, and "Oscar Man", if you're reading this, give me an e-mail....
Grow up and speak when you know what you are speaking about.
F4F, Sorry you are not up to African aviation...it has nothing to do with Nigeria, only perceptions that the 1st world (Europe, USA) is far better than the 3rd world.
Guess you don't remember all of the accidents in the 50's and 60's in the USA involving WW2 "Skippers" who knew it all, but operated on the edge of the envelope.
Remember Capt HT "Dick" Merrill from EAL, and many, many others like him?
Nigeria didn't even have a/c then.
I've flown in Africa extensively including Nigeria, and it's the knowledge of the pilot, not the infrastructure that makes the difference.
Try an NDB over water at night into Tunis with ATC that speaks only "Aviation English": "Roger, report overhead".
Nigerian pilots are fine as far as I'm concerned, and "Oscar Man", if you're reading this, give me an e-mail....
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I won't fly in Nigeria or in Russia. No kidding. It is a night mare.
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What really makes me mad about all this is that, yet again, Nigerian officialdom will rant and rave, the President will order an investigation, then within weeks it'll all be forgotten in the light of increases in violence as first Christmas, then the Presidential elections approach. A year down the road, the results of the accident investigation will still not have been released and the skies will still be full of unsafe aircraft flying into airfields with no radar, unsafe runways and navaids that are often unserviceable. Maybe a few heads will have rolled, but nothing will have changed at all. 
. Just how many crashes does it take and how many lives will be lost before anything meaningful is done to improve aviation safety in Africa in general and Nigeria in particular?
. Just how many crashes does it take and how many lives will be lost before anything meaningful is done to improve aviation safety in Africa in general and Nigeria in particular?Last edited by worldpilot; 30th Oct 2006 at 20:39.
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for those who don't remember dick merril
Biography for
Dick Merrill
Birth name
Henry Tindall Merrill Mini biography
These days, it's a little hard to imagine the celebrity status once given to pilots, but for the generation prior to WW2, pioneer aviators were revered like astronauts were in the 1960's. While not as famous as Charles Lindbergh or Amelia Earhart, Henry Tyndall "Dick" Merrill ranked as a world-famous pilot by the 1930s - most notable for the 1936 so-called Trans-Atlantic "Ping Pong" ball flight in millionaire singer Harry Richman's heavily modified Vultee, christened 'Lady Peace' (which crashed on it's return journey due to Richman accidentally dumping the fuel) and completing the first commercial trans-Atlantic flight (co-piloted by 27-year old Jack Lambie) in history, flying a Lockheed Model 10E Electra, appropriately named the "Daily Express" that was specially commissioned to shuttle back newsreel footage of the May 10, 1937 coronation of King George VI (which resulted in a one-shot movie contract with low-budget Monogram Pictures for Atlantic Flight (1937). Dick had begun learning to fly while stationed in France in WWI but returned home to work on the Illinois Central Railroad as a fireman. He began his aviation career in earnest when he bought a 90-horsepower Curtiss JN4 "Jenny" for $600 at a war surplus sale in Columbus, Georgia in 1920. Merrill spent most of the 1920s barnstorming at air shows and eventually became an air mail service pilot, becoming its highest paid pilot (earning $13,000 in 1930 @ ten cents per air mile) before signing on with the floundering Eastern Airlines after it was restructured under the control of Capt. Eddie Rickenbacker with Merrill heavily promoted as its star pilot. Unlike some of his peers, Merrill was no hot shot. He was a deliberate and careful pilot, so well regarded that many celebrities (his friend Walter Winchell and even General Eisenhower during his 1952 presidential campaign) specifically requested to fly with him. Merrill's calm skills were evident during a flight in 1948 when the prop on an EAL Constellation tore through the fuselage at 10,000 feet off the Florida coast and killed a steward instantly. Dick was credited with saving the lives of 69 people on board. Outwardly humble and unassuming, Dick throughly enjoyed his celebrity and although a non-smoking tea-toadler, he loved the nightlife and hobnobbed with both the famous and infamous. If he had a vice, it was gambling, he habitually spent his high Depression-era income practically as fast as he earned it--- he was habitually broke and it took marriage to settle his financial irresponsibility. He married vivacious 22-year old actress Toby Wing in 1938- twice actually; her mother objected to their original marriage in Tijuana and the couple "officially" married later that June at the home of Sidney Shannon (an early EAL backer and close personal friend) in Fredericksburg, Virginia. She left Hollywood and retired from acting in late 1938 after a brief Broadway run in the Cole Porter musical flop, "You Never Know," that starred Clifton Webb, Libby Holman and Lupe Velez. Despite their 20+ year age difference, they enjoyed a remarkable 44-year marriage. The couple settled in Miami with Dick assigned the Eastern Airlines Miami to New York runs with occasional flights to South America. Too old for a commission, Dick signed on as a civilian MTD pilot and flew the China-Burma "Hump" in DC3's and C-46 Commandos during the war conducting critical supply lights and survey missions. He returned to Eastern Airlines after the war and officially retired from Eastern Airlines on Oct. 3, 1961 after flying a DC8 from New York to Miami, reputedly with the most air miles of any pilot in commercial aviation history, and ranked as the second most senior pilot with the airline. Dick continued to fly into his 80's whenever the opportunity arose, accompanying friend Arthur Godfrey on an around the world flight in 1966, set a speed record at age 78, delivering a Lockheed L-1011 Tri-Star from California to Miami at an average 710 MPH ground speed, and once flew an SST Concorde. Virtually no civilian pilot in the history of aviation piloted such a vast range of aircraft. After Dick's death in October, 1982, Toby spent the remainder of her life actively promoting her husband's rightful place in the annals of aviation history.
Biography for
Dick Merrill
Birth name
Henry Tindall Merrill Mini biography
These days, it's a little hard to imagine the celebrity status once given to pilots, but for the generation prior to WW2, pioneer aviators were revered like astronauts were in the 1960's. While not as famous as Charles Lindbergh or Amelia Earhart, Henry Tyndall "Dick" Merrill ranked as a world-famous pilot by the 1930s - most notable for the 1936 so-called Trans-Atlantic "Ping Pong" ball flight in millionaire singer Harry Richman's heavily modified Vultee, christened 'Lady Peace' (which crashed on it's return journey due to Richman accidentally dumping the fuel) and completing the first commercial trans-Atlantic flight (co-piloted by 27-year old Jack Lambie) in history, flying a Lockheed Model 10E Electra, appropriately named the "Daily Express" that was specially commissioned to shuttle back newsreel footage of the May 10, 1937 coronation of King George VI (which resulted in a one-shot movie contract with low-budget Monogram Pictures for Atlantic Flight (1937). Dick had begun learning to fly while stationed in France in WWI but returned home to work on the Illinois Central Railroad as a fireman. He began his aviation career in earnest when he bought a 90-horsepower Curtiss JN4 "Jenny" for $600 at a war surplus sale in Columbus, Georgia in 1920. Merrill spent most of the 1920s barnstorming at air shows and eventually became an air mail service pilot, becoming its highest paid pilot (earning $13,000 in 1930 @ ten cents per air mile) before signing on with the floundering Eastern Airlines after it was restructured under the control of Capt. Eddie Rickenbacker with Merrill heavily promoted as its star pilot. Unlike some of his peers, Merrill was no hot shot. He was a deliberate and careful pilot, so well regarded that many celebrities (his friend Walter Winchell and even General Eisenhower during his 1952 presidential campaign) specifically requested to fly with him. Merrill's calm skills were evident during a flight in 1948 when the prop on an EAL Constellation tore through the fuselage at 10,000 feet off the Florida coast and killed a steward instantly. Dick was credited with saving the lives of 69 people on board. Outwardly humble and unassuming, Dick throughly enjoyed his celebrity and although a non-smoking tea-toadler, he loved the nightlife and hobnobbed with both the famous and infamous. If he had a vice, it was gambling, he habitually spent his high Depression-era income practically as fast as he earned it--- he was habitually broke and it took marriage to settle his financial irresponsibility. He married vivacious 22-year old actress Toby Wing in 1938- twice actually; her mother objected to their original marriage in Tijuana and the couple "officially" married later that June at the home of Sidney Shannon (an early EAL backer and close personal friend) in Fredericksburg, Virginia. She left Hollywood and retired from acting in late 1938 after a brief Broadway run in the Cole Porter musical flop, "You Never Know," that starred Clifton Webb, Libby Holman and Lupe Velez. Despite their 20+ year age difference, they enjoyed a remarkable 44-year marriage. The couple settled in Miami with Dick assigned the Eastern Airlines Miami to New York runs with occasional flights to South America. Too old for a commission, Dick signed on as a civilian MTD pilot and flew the China-Burma "Hump" in DC3's and C-46 Commandos during the war conducting critical supply lights and survey missions. He returned to Eastern Airlines after the war and officially retired from Eastern Airlines on Oct. 3, 1961 after flying a DC8 from New York to Miami, reputedly with the most air miles of any pilot in commercial aviation history, and ranked as the second most senior pilot with the airline. Dick continued to fly into his 80's whenever the opportunity arose, accompanying friend Arthur Godfrey on an around the world flight in 1966, set a speed record at age 78, delivering a Lockheed L-1011 Tri-Star from California to Miami at an average 710 MPH ground speed, and once flew an SST Concorde. Virtually no civilian pilot in the history of aviation piloted such a vast range of aircraft. After Dick's death in October, 1982, Toby spent the remainder of her life actively promoting her husband's rightful place in the annals of aviation history.
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Hey Folks Relax
I operate into ABV a fair amount along with a lot of other African destanations, I am african myself but am lucky enough to fly shiny newish 777s ABV needs respect but so does JFK with all its 500ft VFR traffic . IN 20 years long haul 747 and 777 I have had more problems atc /wx enviroment wise in the States than in Africa. All countries have cowboys I have seen many more folks launching off into dodgy WX in the first world than in Africa. Easy on the accusations and lets wait for the facts. RIP and condolances to the families.
I operate into ABV a fair amount along with a lot of other African destanations, I am african myself but am lucky enough to fly shiny newish 777s ABV needs respect but so does JFK with all its 500ft VFR traffic . IN 20 years long haul 747 and 777 I have had more problems atc /wx enviroment wise in the States than in Africa. All countries have cowboys I have seen many more folks launching off into dodgy WX in the first world than in Africa. Easy on the accusations and lets wait for the facts. RIP and condolances to the families.
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dav99sod
do YOU have the wx at the time of the crash? there is a report that a virgin plane was waiting out the wind at the time.
and yes, many people have cowboyed it up in the US...perhaps it was 2 things that brought this 737 down...some wx and another as yet unknown factor.
do YOU have the wx at the time of the crash? there is a report that a virgin plane was waiting out the wind at the time.
and yes, many people have cowboyed it up in the US...perhaps it was 2 things that brought this 737 down...some wx and another as yet unknown factor.
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bobusse, would you be so kind and use the [ QUOTE ]blabla[ /QUOTE ] to mark text that you take from other's messages, thanks!
DownIn3Green, fine for your perceptions... as for me I will, if I can, avoid Nigerian skies... seen enough things down there...
As for the rest of Africa, all fine with me, Tunesia being one of the best (compared say to the West and Central parts of the Black Continent), of course it helps if you speak a few words of French and Arabic
DownIn3Green, fine for your perceptions... as for me I will, if I can, avoid Nigerian skies... seen enough things down there...
As for the rest of Africa, all fine with me, Tunesia being one of the best (compared say to the West and Central parts of the Black Continent), of course it helps if you speak a few words of French and Arabic
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You get a chill when an airplane you flew years earlier goes down...
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Flown It,
Aircraft is ex metrojet with 300 mcp, very nice aircraft.
Please forget we have an aviation minister in nigeria. He has no clue about aviation as an industry and flying as a profession. He believes he can take away authority from the PIC and give it to ATC.
Are we ever going to get out this madness, well like the saying goes, "evil flourishes bcos good men refuse to speak up". As long as we nigerians believe moving out is the solution to this insanity, these morons will continue to pull us back to the stone age. I am guilty of this and I have made up my mind to move back in the new year. Enough is a enough.
Aircraft is ex metrojet with 300 mcp, very nice aircraft.
Please forget we have an aviation minister in nigeria. He has no clue about aviation as an industry and flying as a profession. He believes he can take away authority from the PIC and give it to ATC.
Are we ever going to get out this madness, well like the saying goes, "evil flourishes bcos good men refuse to speak up". As long as we nigerians believe moving out is the solution to this insanity, these morons will continue to pull us back to the stone age. I am guilty of this and I have made up my mind to move back in the new year. Enough is a enough.
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My sympathy to the loved ones of all those who lost their lives.
So long as top Aviation Officials in Nigeria earn less than $500 a month as civil servants, the incentive and latitude exist to be easily compromised. The Nigerian Aviation Authority should be independent and brought in line with international standards in enforcing regulations, operations, management and adequate pay for officials
So long as top Aviation Officials in Nigeria earn less than $500 a month as civil servants, the incentive and latitude exist to be easily compromised. The Nigerian Aviation Authority should be independent and brought in line with international standards in enforcing regulations, operations, management and adequate pay for officials
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wiley
I was on metrojet and recall that there were a FEW silver birds with the name metrojet slapped on the side and that the red livery were not on all planes...
and yes, I flew this one too.
the non bubbajet 737-200's were pretty nice.
while wx may be a factor, I can also imagine improper loading or mishandling of flaps might be part of the problem.
did you see the position of the trim(stab)...a little funny
jon
I was on metrojet and recall that there were a FEW silver birds with the name metrojet slapped on the side and that the red livery were not on all planes...
and yes, I flew this one too.
the non bubbajet 737-200's were pretty nice.
while wx may be a factor, I can also imagine improper loading or mishandling of flaps might be part of the problem.
did you see the position of the trim(stab)...a little funny
jon