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Air Crash Nigeria

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Air Crash Nigeria

Old 30th Oct 2006, 07:09
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Originally Posted by fox niner
Is that grass on the roof? Or is it part of the paint scheme....
you guessed right. a unique paint scheme. quite comon though
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Old 30th Oct 2006, 07:51
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ADC airlines seem to have a pretty appalling accident history, especially for an airline with so few aircraft. From Wikipedia:
The 1990s saw a number of accidents with ADC Airlines planes. In August 1994 and July 1995 two DC-9-31s were written off in non-fatal accidents, both at Monrovia-Spriggs Payne Airport. On 7 November 1996 a Boeing 727-231 en route from Port Harcourt to Lagos went out of control and crashed after a near miss incident killing all 143 on board. On 29 July 1997 a BAC One-Eleven 203AE landing at Calabar overshot the runway and an engine caught fire. There was one fatality.
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Old 30th Oct 2006, 08:20
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It's not a nice way for friends, colleagues or relatives to pick up such terrible news via a forum.

Sorry but I don't like the idea of passenger manifests being published in the public domain.
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Old 30th Oct 2006, 08:37
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This from “This Day” Newspaper

Aviation Minister, Professor Babalola Borishade, yesterday pointed a finger of guilt at the pilot of the crashed ADC Boeing 737 aircraft, saying information available to him indicated that the pilot did not heed the directive that all planes should tarry for just ten minutes to allow a stormy weather clear before taking-off.

An impeccable source at the airport authoritatively told journalists yesterday that the pilot was warned by the Control Tower to exercise patience because of the bad weather but he was quoted as saying ‘God is in control.’
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Old 30th Oct 2006, 08:42
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Originally Posted by Outlook
It's not a nice way for friends, colleagues or relatives to pick up such terrible news via a forum.
Sorry but I don't like the idea of passenger manifests being published in the public domain.
I agree totally.
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Old 30th Oct 2006, 08:49
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Adages:Real Estate - Location 3X....Aviation Safety (Older AC) - Maintenance 3X.

Originally Posted by FO JimmieJames
Deepest sympathies to the families. Terrible loss.

I guessed it was a 732 when I heard the news this morning. They seem to be dropping out of the sky left, right and centre. Does anyone feel the same as I do, but surly isn't it time for this great work horse of the skies (B732), to be put to rest. It is sad that all the wealthier countries who were operating the 732's have sold them off to poorer operators in Africa and South America, and they seem to be the one's suffering.
Maybe I am wrong - interested to here comments.

Alaska Airlines and Delta logged nearly 8000 flights with the Boeing 737-200ADV in 2006. The average age of these aircraft is about 20 years old. Aloha Airlines operate older versions of the B732 (like the one involved in this crash) every day as well.



Originally Posted by aerotransport.org
A/c involved had 53,000 hours and 40,000 cycles (51,563 and 38,917 as of 1/1/06)
/ATDB
DSO (design service objective - cycle limit) on the B737 classics is 75,000 with a demonstrated upper limit beyond 150,000 with proper maintenance.
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Old 30th Oct 2006, 09:10
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Dear Moderators

Please remove the passenger manifest; extreem bad taste / judgement
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Old 30th Oct 2006, 09:27
  #48 (permalink)  
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How sad, one more tragedy to add to the troubled Nigerian aviation history, all RIP

Why did it happen... anybody who's been operating in and around the area will already hold a few of the answers, namely:

- weather, POOR (plenty of TS + SQ around. If not, smog and low clouds coupled with haze)
- infrastructure, POOR (approach/runway/taxi lighting dead, ILS signals unstable, marking non-existant, slippery runways/tarmac)
- ATC, POOR (questionnable vectors, overloaded, dated equipment)
- aircraft, POOR (dodgy maintenance, non-availibility of spare parts, old partly maintained equipment)
- political system, POOR (corruption, poverty, lack of overview)

These culprits make Nigeria one of the, if not the one, most dangerous countries to fly in...

Solutions anybody?
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Old 30th Oct 2006, 09:45
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Passenger Manifest

Thanks for removing this from the forum.
Such an idiotic and unneccessary post can cause untold misery.
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Old 30th Oct 2006, 10:03
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[QUOTE=vapilot2004;2936488] Aloha Airlines operate older versions of the B732 (like the one involved in this crash) every day as well.
[QUOTE]

Maybe not the best example, bearing in mind thier cabroilet incident
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Old 30th Oct 2006, 10:16
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<"The pilot of the unfortunate accident refused to take advantage of the weather advice and the opinion of the (control) tower to exercise patience and allow the weather to clear for a safe take off," Borishade said at a news conference. (Watch the wreckage that nine people survived -- 1:52 Video)

"The discretionary power of the air crew to override advice from the tower has been largely responsible for unfortunate consequences in the history of air mishaps in this country," Borishade said. "The federal government has directed the National Civil Aviation Authority to look into this and prepare appropriate guidelines to stop this reckless abuse of crew discretionary power ... to ensure safety.">

FROM THE APand CNN INTERNATIONAL/


WX...just a mistake or pilot pushing?
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Old 30th Oct 2006, 10:22
  #52 (permalink)  
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... how many lives will be lost before anything meaningful is done to improve aviation safety in Africa in general ...
In my saddest and most cynical mood: There is no limit to the number of deaths that African aviation can sustain and never enough to get something done. Bear in mind that there is no collective force in Africa, as there is in Europe or the Middle East, or the ASEAN countries, where they seek to over ride their individual political and national needs for the benefit of the region. All African countries have their needs first and last. They see no purpose to advise/interfere with their neighbours as they do not wish that to happen to them in return.

flash8
As long as life is cheap in these places nothing will change.
As an ex-Africa resident and family still in that continent, I don't think it's so much about life being 'cheap' as, rather, that life is not rich!

There is a fatalism in Africa that we no longer have in Europe and that is not aimed at those who see their fate in terms of a particular religion that is currently mentioned every day in the west. Many in Africa see their lives as being pre-destined, irrespective of which ever 'religion' they have and many have 'religions' that are nothing to do with any that we have heard of.

If you wonder why it is that Africans tolerate repressive regimes (Zimbabwe) ones that exterminate local people (Sudan) ones that embezzle funds (Take your pick) then you may get a line on why nothing is going to change. Whether you perceive it to be good or bad - that is Africa.
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Old 30th Oct 2006, 10:46
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Well put F4F. I fly into Abuja, Lagos and Kano on a regular basis for a major European carrier, and these are by far the most challenging destinations that we operate to. Not that the airports pose a particular problem, but the unpredictability of the infrastructure, the atrocious ATC, and at certain times of the year the weather make it stressful. Have had all the aerodrome lights fail on short final (twice on the same dark night), is a particularly pleasant memory.

There are no SID’s and STAR’s separating the inbound and outbound traffic flows (last time resulting in a clearance for a straight-in approach from FL200 at 25 miles out, yeah right), it comes down to having to sort things out yourself and telling ATC how you will be doing things as they appear clueless as to what an aircraft does and what it can do. Making things very inefficient, and dangerous. It took a mid-air from New Delhi to sort out this oversight in that airspace, but it is a lesson that applies to many other areas in the world, including this one.

Traffic is increasing in Nigerian airspace, and without improvements we will be returning to this subject more often than we already do.

The Nigerian government would do themselves a great favour by using some of the 45 billion dollars that their oil generates to improve their aviation infrastructure. But undoubtedly it will be the same as it always goes, lots of hot air, and nothing will change, shameful.

I would love IFALPA to grow themselves a set, and go to a catagory beyond a black star, it might be the only way to get something done.

My sympathies to the families.

Greetings O.
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Old 30th Oct 2006, 10:52
  #54 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Outlook
It's not a nice way for friends, colleagues or relatives to pick up such terrible news via a forum.

Sorry but I don't like the idea of passenger manifests being published in the public domain.
It might not be nice but it's no different from reading it in the newspapers.
So where is the problem?
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Old 30th Oct 2006, 10:53
  #55 (permalink)  
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Instant judgement by the Aviation Minister?

CNN: Crash pilot 'ignored storm advice'

ABUJA, Nigeria (AP) -- The pilot of a Nigerian airliner that crashed a day earlier did not heed air traffic controllers' advice to wait for stormy weather to clear before taking off, the minister of aviation said Monday. The pilot was among 96 people killed in the crash; nine people survived.

While Aviation Minister Babalola Borishade did not directly blame pilot error in the third mass-casualty jet crash to hit this West African nation in less than a year, he said officials would move to try to curb pilots' power to ignore advice from the control tower......

Borishade said all of ADC's planes were grounded indefinitely and its flying license was suspended.......

"The pilot of the unfortunate accident refused to take advantage of the weather advice and the opinion of the (control) tower to exercise patience and allow the weather to clear for a safe take off," Borishade said at a news conference. "The discretionary power of the air crew to override advice from the tower has been largely responsible for unfortunate consequences in the history of air mishaps in this country," Borishade said. "The federal government has directed the National Civil Aviation Authority to look into this and prepare appropriate guidelines to stop this reckless abuse of crew discretionary power ... to ensure safety."

The minister said conditions at the time included rain, gusty winds, thunder and lightning, and that controllers thought the weather would worsen. "The air traffic controller re-emphasized the deteriorating weather condition and gave wind checks, which they (crew) acknowledged," he said.

Rowland Iyayi, head of the National Air Space Management Agency, said a Virgin Airlines flight that had been on the runway at about the same time as the ADC flight did not take off because of strong winds......
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Old 30th Oct 2006, 12:10
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Only time and the investigation that will now follow will confirm or eliminate weather as a factor in this accident... Having said that, on a number of occasions over the years I've elected to delay a departure due to CB acitivity in the vicinity of an airport.. (or decided to hold well clear) ... in spite of the fact that ( in Europe ) I was losing my slot time... I'm always amazed by the fact that so few other crews take advantage of this simple alternative to flying into unknown weather conditions... why so keen to rush to the scene of an accident ? In Africa and one or two other places that suffer from very severe weather, and with no slot times to concern ourselves with.. why not sit comfortably on the ground for 10 / 15 minutes and see how things develop ?
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Old 30th Oct 2006, 12:48
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Originally Posted by Lancelot37
It might not be nice but it's no different from reading it in the newspapers.
So where is the problem?
In the UK this information is normally withheld from the public domain until all next of kin have been informed.

(Mods, Thank you for removing the manifest)

Even after notification some people want to grieve in private and therefore I think it's in bad taste to post and off topic to this original thread.
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Old 30th Oct 2006, 12:58
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‘God is in control.’ ??

How sad, one more tragedy to add to the troubled Nigerian aviation history, all RIP

Why did it happen... anybody who's been operating in and around the area will already hold a few of the answers, namely:

- weather, POOR (plenty of TS + SQ around. If not, smog and low clouds coupled with haze)
- infrastructure, POOR (approach/runway/taxi lighting dead, ILS signals unstable, marking non-existant, slippery runways/tarmac)
- ATC, POOR (questionnable vectors, overloaded, dated equipment)
- aircraft, POOR (dodgy maintenance, non-availibility of spare parts, old partly maintained equipment)
- political system, POOR (corruption, poverty, lack of overview)

These culprits make Nigeria one of the, if not the one, most dangerous countries to fly in...

Solutions anybody?

- pilot,questionable decision ?
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Old 30th Oct 2006, 13:05
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Dear Sir Lancelot37,

As you are more than twice as old as I am, you certainly have had more life experience than me. However, posting the manifest on the web is not considered civilized by my standards (and other's). Regardless whether it was also published in an African newspaper.
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Old 30th Oct 2006, 13:40
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US Air had 2 types of 737-200. Those purchased by the original US Air had the -300 Mode control panel whereas those purchased by Piedmont were of an earlier vintage. They flew the same but the ex Piedmont A/C took you back a few decades in interfacing with the machine. Anyone know if this was ex Piedmont?
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