Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Monarch 767 In-Flight Return to MAN 18/10

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Monarch 767 In-Flight Return to MAN 18/10

Old 19th Oct 2006, 12:32
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: EGKK
Age: 42
Posts: 599
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Monarch 767 In-Flight Return to MAN 18/10

Anyone know why MON387 (G-DIMB/767-300) returned into Manchester yesterday morning. Got about halfway across Ireland then headed back sqawking 7700.
Localiser Green is offline  
Old 19th Oct 2006, 14:05
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 660
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
News to me.......some digging to be done will see what I can find out, I'll probably get beaten to the punch though!
Monarch Man is offline  
Old 19th Oct 2006, 18:25
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 929
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Oil QTY went to 0,
Shortly followed by the Oil pressure. So engine shut down and A/C returned.
No problem, Crew doing for real, what they practise in the SIM every 6 Months.
IcePack is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2006, 08:59
  #4 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: EGKK
Age: 42
Posts: 599
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thanks IcePack, good to see they were not over the Atlantic at the time, where it would no doubt have caused a little more sweat.

Job well done

Localiser Green is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2006, 11:31
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: London,England
Posts: 1,385
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Does ETOPS capability modify the usual practise of going to the nearest airport?
No it does not, it simply increases the distance that you may fly from the nearest suitable airport.
Max Angle is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2006, 12:04
  #6 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: EGKK
Age: 42
Posts: 599
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
There's much more to it than just landing at the 'nearest (adequate) airport'. The crew make a decision on the nearest suitable airport. A number of factors make an 'adequate' airport 'suitable', including (but not limited to):

Time to reach airport
Wind Direction / Weather
Approach Aids / Likely Type of Approach
Runway Direction / Runway Length
Crew Familiarity
Emergency Facilities
Ground Facilities

etc...

Remember Dublin or Belfast do not boast 10,000ft runways (to my knowledge) and the aircraft would likely be landing perhaps 30-40 tonnes overweight, with a lower flap setting and so at relatively high speed.

The crew have to assess the situation and the likely risk posed by continuing to an airport a little further away, and this may be done in conjunction with the company operations department (for whom it was no doubt preferable for the aircraft to return to an engineering base).

With a situation like this by the time the crew had briefed and prepared for the s/e landing they would be halfway back to Manchester anyway.
Localiser Green is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2006, 12:47
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Middle England
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Any news on what caused the oil loss? Had a similar event on a 757 a few years back (not MON) down to a badly sealed oil filler cap.
763 jock is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2006, 12:56
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Ballymun
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Damn you Localiser Green!!!

For writing an informed , professional, and eloquent reply on the subject of engine failures and decision making!

I was looking forward to reading the usual posts of Flight Sim/Spotters/Armchair AAIB Inspectors thoughts on the handling of the incident.
Silver Tongued Cavalier is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2006, 13:11
  #9 (permalink)  

Only half a speed-brake
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Commuting not home
Age: 46
Posts: 4,297
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Pininstauld
Thanks, Max. Must have been shut down well after the U-turn then....
No, the donk quit first and the decision to turn happened only afterwards. The crew looked for the first safe haven (for whatever that means!) which in this case was the departure airfield. We do trust our one+one engines to take us over 3000 miles, why not trust one to take us 200. Also to be considered by you (as you are not a twin jet pilot - right?) is the fact that under such STANDARD emergency scenario you will take NO CHANCES where the room for your personal mistakes becomes NIL. Hence what you need is time to secure longevity for all involved. In SIM, 15 minutes will suffice. Apply the same drill in real life you get 20 and then you carefully cross-check EVERY single item. 30 mins +. 200 miles in descending 767 should be about 35 minutes - time to breathe. Had they chosen a closer airport, the time on one engine would be the same. Also, apart form all of this, ETOPS limitations - read one engine operation to closest airfield - maxima read about 3 hours these days.

FD.
(the un-real)
FlightDetent is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2006, 15:53
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Mycenae
Posts: 504
Received 9 Likes on 6 Posts
Pininstauld - Something else to consider is that to get into Dublin/Belfast from that position at 30,000 feet would require covering almost exactly the same distance flying big circles as it would be back to Manchester in a straight line. Another consideration is the weather, how do you know that Dublin/Belfast weren't below Cat 1?
StudentInDebt is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2006, 17:52
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: In front of a computer
Posts: 2,330
Received 49 Likes on 20 Posts
Er - what is occuring here

I posted a question to Localiser Green earlier today which somehow disappeared. I put it down to finger trouble or browser probs so reposted it.

It was there a short while ago but has now vanished just like the other one.

If a moderator is interfering here could he (or she) kindly let me know. As a long term member I am unclear as to what is happening to my question......
ETOPS is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2006, 17:57
  #12 (permalink)  
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I sent you a PM at 1345 about it - and my prediction was correct.
BOAC is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2006, 18:46
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: In front of a computer
Posts: 2,330
Received 49 Likes on 20 Posts
Thanks

All has been made clear

I obey, I obey I obey..........
ETOPS is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2006, 20:21
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: On the dark side of the moon
Posts: 974
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
Before second-guessing how the situation was handled, one must remember that the Commander and his crew must consider many relevant facts when deciding their course of action. If the situation is stable and one has time to think about it, one of those considerations would be the effect of exactly where one diverts to, on the ability for the engineering folks to enact a fix. Given that the cause of the engine failure seems to have been definitive and quite obvious as a loss of oil quantity, there would be little reason to suspect that the other engine should succomb to a similar failure, unlike an unexplained loss of power that may have been caused by something such as fuel contamination. Add that to the fact that they would need to fly some 100 track miles from that altitude to get down in any case, a diversion to MAN (their maintenance base) seems quite logical and reasonable.

Last edited by J.O.; 20th Oct 2006 at 21:26.
J.O. is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2006, 20:31
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 570
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Localiser Green
There's much more to it than just landing at the 'nearest (adequate) airport'. The crew make a decision on the nearest suitable airport. A number of factors make an 'adequate' airport 'suitable', including (but not limited to):
Time to reach airport
Wind Direction / Weather
Approach Aids / Likely Type of Approach
Runway Direction / Runway Length
Crew Familiarity
Emergency Facilities
Ground Facilities
etc...
Remember Dublin or Belfast do not boast 10,000ft runways (to my knowledge) and the aircraft would likely be landing perhaps 30-40 tonnes overweight, with a lower flap setting and so at relatively high speed.
The crew have to assess the situation and the likely risk posed by continuing to an airport a little further away, and this may be done in conjunction with the company operations department (for whom it was no doubt preferable for the aircraft to return to an engineering base).
With a situation like this by the time the crew had briefed and prepared for the s/e landing they would be halfway back to Manchester anyway.

Plus, if you need to lose a certain amount of altitude from your current height anyway, you are going to be in the air for x more minutes anyway, so you may as well do that by flying to a preferred airport rather than spiralling down to the nearest if it is safe to.
AlphaWhiskyRomeo is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2006, 23:40
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Near Stalyvegas
Age: 78
Posts: 2,022
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Landed 24R ["Greaser" actally] smoke from port u/c, vacated ok, shut down and towed to stand.
watp,iktch
chiglet is offline  
Old 21st Oct 2006, 10:56
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Between the land and the sky
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Localiser Green,

How did you get the aircraft route on a map like that? Your second post on this thread.

Cheers
EGKK931 is offline  
Old 21st Oct 2006, 11:23
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 929
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I suspect that if he was off on a transatlantic he would also have had to jettison fuel. The authorities prefer that to be done over water, despite the fact it is all suposed to disipate 2000 ft below the a/c.
Me thinks very well handled by crew all very calm and no rushing no drama.
IcePack is offline  
Old 21st Oct 2006, 13:27
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: warrington UK
Age: 54
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
[QUOTE Flight Sim/Spotters/Armchair AAIB Inspectors thoughts on the handling of the incident. ][/quote]
what a bunch us enthusiasts are and i didnt realise that we were held in such high regard by the proffesionals , who must seem to forget that us enthusiasts are also paying passengers ... yes the very same people who pay to keep you proffesional , and the ones who take an interest in the hard work thats put into our safety and dont just regard a flight as a bus with waitress service

oops just slipped off my soap box
LCA Bound is offline  
Old 21st Oct 2006, 13:35
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 660
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Its ok LCA, most professional pilots are also enthusiasts we wouldn't be in the job if we didnt have an affinity for it (well for the most part! )

Unfortunately however there does exist a vast swathe of the general populace who belong to the "OK" or "Daily Mail" school of common sense, and it is they who enjoy speculating about issues and situations of which they have no concept from which to base an opinion.

Well done to the crew once again for an outstanding effort
Monarch Man is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.