Monarch 767 In-Flight Return to MAN 18/10
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Monarch 767 In-Flight Return to MAN 18/10
Anyone know why MON387 (G-DIMB/767-300) returned into Manchester yesterday morning. Got about halfway across Ireland then headed back sqawking 7700.
Oil QTY went to 0,
Shortly followed by the Oil pressure. So engine shut down and A/C returned.
No problem, Crew doing for real, what they practise in the SIM every 6 Months.
Shortly followed by the Oil pressure. So engine shut down and A/C returned.
No problem, Crew doing for real, what they practise in the SIM every 6 Months.
Does ETOPS capability modify the usual practise of going to the nearest airport?
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There's much more to it than just landing at the 'nearest (adequate) airport'. The crew make a decision on the nearest suitable airport. A number of factors make an 'adequate' airport 'suitable', including (but not limited to):
Time to reach airport
Wind Direction / Weather
Approach Aids / Likely Type of Approach
Runway Direction / Runway Length
Crew Familiarity
Emergency Facilities
Ground Facilities
etc...
Remember Dublin or Belfast do not boast 10,000ft runways (to my knowledge) and the aircraft would likely be landing perhaps 30-40 tonnes overweight, with a lower flap setting and so at relatively high speed.
The crew have to assess the situation and the likely risk posed by continuing to an airport a little further away, and this may be done in conjunction with the company operations department (for whom it was no doubt preferable for the aircraft to return to an engineering base).
With a situation like this by the time the crew had briefed and prepared for the s/e landing they would be halfway back to Manchester anyway.
Time to reach airport
Wind Direction / Weather
Approach Aids / Likely Type of Approach
Runway Direction / Runway Length
Crew Familiarity
Emergency Facilities
Ground Facilities
etc...
Remember Dublin or Belfast do not boast 10,000ft runways (to my knowledge) and the aircraft would likely be landing perhaps 30-40 tonnes overweight, with a lower flap setting and so at relatively high speed.
The crew have to assess the situation and the likely risk posed by continuing to an airport a little further away, and this may be done in conjunction with the company operations department (for whom it was no doubt preferable for the aircraft to return to an engineering base).
With a situation like this by the time the crew had briefed and prepared for the s/e landing they would be halfway back to Manchester anyway.
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Damn you Localiser Green!!! 
For writing an informed , professional, and eloquent reply on the subject of engine failures and decision making!
I was looking forward to reading the usual posts of Flight Sim/Spotters/Armchair AAIB Inspectors thoughts on the handling of the incident.
For writing an informed , professional, and eloquent reply on the subject of engine failures and decision making!
I was looking forward to reading the usual posts of Flight Sim/Spotters/Armchair AAIB Inspectors thoughts on the handling of the incident.
Only half a speed-brake
FD.
(the un-real)
Pininstauld - Something else to consider is that to get into Dublin/Belfast from that position at 30,000 feet would require covering almost exactly the same distance flying big circles as it would be back to Manchester in a straight line. Another consideration is the weather, how do you know that Dublin/Belfast weren't below Cat 1?
Er - what is occuring here 
I posted a question to Localiser Green earlier today which somehow disappeared. I put it down to finger trouble or browser probs so reposted it.
It was there a short while ago but has now vanished just like the other one.
If a moderator is interfering here could he (or she) kindly let me know. As a long term member I am unclear as to what is happening to my question......
I posted a question to Localiser Green earlier today which somehow disappeared. I put it down to finger trouble or browser probs so reposted it.
It was there a short while ago but has now vanished just like the other one.
If a moderator is interfering here could he (or she) kindly let me know. As a long term member I am unclear as to what is happening to my question......
Before second-guessing how the situation was handled, one must remember that the Commander and his crew must consider many relevant facts when deciding their course of action. If the situation is stable and one has time to think about it, one of those considerations would be the effect of exactly where one diverts to, on the ability for the engineering folks to enact a fix. Given that the cause of the engine failure seems to have been definitive and quite obvious as a loss of oil quantity, there would be little reason to suspect that the other engine should succomb to a similar failure, unlike an unexplained loss of power that may have been caused by something such as fuel contamination. Add that to the fact that they would need to fly some 100 track miles from that altitude to get down in any case, a diversion to MAN (their maintenance base) seems quite logical and reasonable.
Last edited by J.O.; 20th Oct 2006 at 20:26.
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There's much more to it than just landing at the 'nearest (adequate) airport'. The crew make a decision on the nearest suitable airport. A number of factors make an 'adequate' airport 'suitable', including (but not limited to):
Time to reach airport
Wind Direction / Weather
Approach Aids / Likely Type of Approach
Runway Direction / Runway Length
Crew Familiarity
Emergency Facilities
Ground Facilities
etc...
Remember Dublin or Belfast do not boast 10,000ft runways (to my knowledge) and the aircraft would likely be landing perhaps 30-40 tonnes overweight, with a lower flap setting and so at relatively high speed.
The crew have to assess the situation and the likely risk posed by continuing to an airport a little further away, and this may be done in conjunction with the company operations department (for whom it was no doubt preferable for the aircraft to return to an engineering base).
With a situation like this by the time the crew had briefed and prepared for the s/e landing they would be halfway back to Manchester anyway.
Time to reach airport
Wind Direction / Weather
Approach Aids / Likely Type of Approach
Runway Direction / Runway Length
Crew Familiarity
Emergency Facilities
Ground Facilities
etc...
Remember Dublin or Belfast do not boast 10,000ft runways (to my knowledge) and the aircraft would likely be landing perhaps 30-40 tonnes overweight, with a lower flap setting and so at relatively high speed.
The crew have to assess the situation and the likely risk posed by continuing to an airport a little further away, and this may be done in conjunction with the company operations department (for whom it was no doubt preferable for the aircraft to return to an engineering base).
With a situation like this by the time the crew had briefed and prepared for the s/e landing they would be halfway back to Manchester anyway.
Plus, if you need to lose a certain amount of altitude from your current height anyway, you are going to be in the air for x more minutes anyway, so you may as well do that by flying to a preferred airport rather than spiralling down to the nearest if it is safe to.
I suspect that if he was off on a transatlantic he would also have had to jettison fuel. The authorities prefer that to be done over water, despite the fact it is all suposed to disipate 2000 ft below the a/c.
Me thinks very well handled by crew all very calm and no rushing no drama.
Me thinks very well handled by crew all very calm and no rushing no drama.
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[QUOTE Flight Sim/Spotters/Armchair AAIB Inspectors thoughts on the handling of the incident. ][/quote]
what a bunch us enthusiasts are and i didnt realise that we were held in such high regard by the proffesionals , who must seem to forget that us enthusiasts are also paying passengers ... yes the very same people who pay to keep you proffesional , and the ones who take an interest in the hard work thats put into our safety and dont just regard a flight as a bus with waitress service
oops just slipped off my soap box
][/quote]what a bunch us enthusiasts are and i didnt realise that we were held in such high regard by the proffesionals , who must seem to forget that us enthusiasts are also paying passengers ... yes the very same people who pay to keep you proffesional , and the ones who take an interest in the hard work thats put into our safety and dont just regard a flight as a bus with waitress service
oops just slipped off my soap box
Its ok LCA, most professional pilots are also enthusiasts
we wouldn't be in the job if we didnt have an affinity for it (well for the most part! )
Unfortunately however there does exist a vast swathe of the general populace who belong to the "OK" or "Daily Mail" school of common sense, and it is they who enjoy speculating about issues and situations of which they have no concept from which to base an opinion.
Well done to the crew once again for an outstanding effort
we wouldn't be in the job if we didnt have an affinity for it (well for the most part! )Unfortunately however there does exist a vast swathe of the general populace who belong to the "OK" or "Daily Mail" school of common sense, and it is they who enjoy speculating about issues and situations of which they have no concept from which to base an opinion.
Well done to the crew once again for an outstanding effort