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Monarch 767 In-Flight Return to MAN 18/10

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Monarch 767 In-Flight Return to MAN 18/10

Old 21st Oct 2006, 13:31
  #21 (permalink)  
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Well said Mon man.

As a professional pilot it would be nice to think that I could make a major decision without it being scrutinized on here, and without having to endure a load of half truths and in some cases accusations of wrong doing by people who have very little knowledge of the job.

You will notice that rarely do other airline pilots question the decisions made by their colleagues.

and the ones who take an interest in the hard work thats put into our safety
In extremis you could argue that these amateur pontifications reduce safety as a crew may well have this forum on the back of their minds when making a decision. I would hope not, and I do stress in extremis.

The Company that I work for will never question a decision made by one of their Captains as long as the decision was SAFE, this relieves the Captain of the pressure of having to think "what will the Company say...". It would be a shame if that philosophy was ruined by the pressure put on by people here.

In this instance I believe that Pininstauld's question was pure inquisitiveness (sp), and there is nothing wrong with that, but there is a very thin line between that and uneducated speculation, which we have to endure a lot of on these forums.
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Old 21st Oct 2006, 14:19
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I would assume that after the safety issues are sorted out and all is stable, passenger convenience factors (getting them on their way again, etc) could then be considered?
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Old 21st Oct 2006, 17:40
  #23 (permalink)  
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There is a very fine balance within the charter airline industry when trying to make the correct decision.
Had they circled (pointlessly) over Ireland and put down there, they would have ended up with an AOG 767, in a non MON base, full of pax, and no engineering support. Commercial nightmare!

Well done to the crew....hope it mirrored the sim!!

AND FOR ALL YOU JOURNALISTS.....safety is NEVER compromised, certainly not for financial reasons!!
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Old 21st Oct 2006, 21:02
  #24 (permalink)  
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Probably time to tie up the loose ends and thank everybody for the complementary remarks made over the last few days.
Initially when we lost the oil quantity followed by the oil pressure the immediate thought was where is the closest suitable, Shannon was my No 1 due to runway length, but frankly, like Dublin and Belfast too close and would probably have just ended up with a rushed approach without time for a proper briefing and preparation for the crew. A Mayday was declared and Shannon ATC were brilliant giving us immediate descent down to a suitable single engine level. As Localiser Green states the factors making the decision of where to go all go through your mind and as Manchester was a 1000'/min descent from where we were it seemed the best option, the live engine only having to produce relatively low power for the descent so no great deal. We had a fairly low passenger load (about 190) approaching the end of the season so we only needed to jettison about 8 tons of fuel and this was done as we jinked around Anglesey, as you can see on the plot. North Wales was fairly clear for a change so a 15 degree left turn was requested and granted for this exercise.
Obviously familiarity with our home base was a factor in the decision to return, the weather, runway length, emergency services and the fact that Manchester is an engineering base were also important. Also the knowledge that our ground staff could organise a suitable replacement aircraft and accomodation, if necessary, for the passengers. In fact they departed around 1800L the same evening, on an Excel 747, just over 6 hours after disembarking form our aircraft, a pretty good job by our Operations department.
As has been stated we practice this exercise every six months in the simulator so it did not produce anything unexpected, fortunately, this time we did not have to go around at decision! We landed just under MLW at 144 tons with a Vref 20 of 154kt and with max auto brake only used about 6000' of runway, before leaving at the last RET.
I am fortunate to work for a company that prides itself on its standards of training, one of the reasons why I joined them 20 years ago, and the crew on this day were without exception brilliant.
I would just like to say how relieved I was that this happened over a friendly country where the use of mayday is understood and not answered by a stony silence. Please pass on thanks to everyone in the ATC units in Shannon, London and Manchester who got us back without any drama and to the emergency services at Manchester who did a first class job, but there again would you expect anything else!
P.s. BTW Localiser Green, where DID you get that plot from!? Are we all watched like this nowadays?
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Old 21st Oct 2006, 21:33
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Thanks for the description centerpoint as someone who is a slightly nervous flyer it is reasuring to know that these situations are dealt with in such calm thoughtfull way to all involved
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Old 21st Oct 2006, 22:27
  #26 (permalink)  

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Centrefix: nice one - hope the paperwork didn't take too long! It is postings like yours that make PPRuNe worth visiting.

I think localiser uses this website:


PS: can anyone tell me why I am now apparently sponsored by google?
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Old 21st Oct 2006, 23:32
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Thank you for the concise explanation of the event. Much appreciated.

The ability to implement trained procedures under pressure and particularly for an event which must rank as a 'rare occurance', is the mark of a true professional.
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Old 22nd Oct 2006, 11:03
  #28 (permalink)  
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Once again filled with admiration at the way Centrefix and his colleagues deal with emergencies, and thanks for taking the time to tell us what happened. I'm guessing your flight was tracked on this website: http://www.openatc.com/
I find it fascinating.
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Old 22nd Oct 2006, 11:11
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PS: can anyone tell me why I am now apparently sponsored by google?
overstress .... all is explained here ....

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Old 22nd Oct 2006, 17:34
  #30 (permalink)  
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Localiser Green,

How did you get the aircraft route on a map like that?
It was from http://www.openatc.com, (click on 'Emergencies' on the left hand menu and you will see the MON387 listed).

The image is hosted on another website, not associated with the screenshot itself which was taken from Open ATC.

I did say all this in response to a post by ETOPS earlier on the thread, but both posts were deleted by a moderator without explanation.
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Old 30th Oct 2006, 13:58
  #31 (permalink)  
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Unhappy I was there!!

Hi everyone,

I was on the afforementioned MON387 when it lost the engine and pretty damn scary it was too..

We were passing over Dublin still climbing to our cruise when I heard one of the engines winding down. This was accompanied by a sudden descent and sharp 180 degree turn. the cabin crew started rushing about putting things away that they had just got out.

The Captain then said something like "Cabin crew bravo code blue" on the tannoy.

An announcement was then made that due to technical problems we were returning to Manchester and one engine had been shut down.

Looking out of the window i noticed that by this time we were passing Anglsea and you could clearly make out RAF Valley's runways. At that moment I wondered why we were flying all the way back to MAN and bypassing a lot closer airfields in doing so. (Liverpool, Blackpool etc)

On landing at MAN we burst 2 tyres and had to be towed from the end of the runway with smoke still coming from the undercarriage.

By the way, we were flying to Punta Cana and were delayed 12 hours until a blessed Excel 747 and crew were chartered to carry us.
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Old 1st Nov 2006, 19:31
  #32 (permalink)  
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Thumbs up

Forgot to add to the above thread my appreciation of the Crew aboard this aircraft whos calmness throughout made an emergency landing a little less stressful that it may have been.

We flew home from the Dominican Republic a week later on G-DIMB with nothing exciting to report.
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