Incident at PIK
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Year 2010. Atlantic pilot twists ankle falling off Electra ladder. PPRuNe bombarded with claims that had there been a F/E, he would have prevented this accident.
When will this ridiculous argument end?
For those of you interested in facts, and I suspect that is not too many, here goes.
The Captain at the Prestwick incident holds a current FE License with TRE authority and the student under training was an Electra FE sponsored through pilot training by Atlantic at the two crew changeover.
Engineer, does your pre-flight include inspecting the inside of the oleo leg?
Freightdoggy. The Captain de-boosts the Electra by leaning down and pulling the handles with his right hand. If anything, the handles are nearer the Captain than the FE's seat. We don't find it too taxing!
As for the 'kids' at Atlantic, recent examples now work for BA, Virgin, Cathay, Monarch, Britannia, JMC, Sabena, Easyjet, Atlas, Air Contractors, Brymon, BEA, BRAL, GBAirways and British Midland. If you have a problem with these pilots, I suggest you fly Ryanair, because that's about the only place you won't find an Atlantic graduate.
Never2Low, your incapacitation point applies to any two crew operation, but it is covered annually in training and presents few problems. As we are all just 'kids', we are far less likely to keel over and have a coronary in the first place.
Finally, Thank you CRX for your support. It's nice to see someone hase more brains than opinions.
When will this ridiculous argument end?
For those of you interested in facts, and I suspect that is not too many, here goes.
The Captain at the Prestwick incident holds a current FE License with TRE authority and the student under training was an Electra FE sponsored through pilot training by Atlantic at the two crew changeover.
Engineer, does your pre-flight include inspecting the inside of the oleo leg?
Freightdoggy. The Captain de-boosts the Electra by leaning down and pulling the handles with his right hand. If anything, the handles are nearer the Captain than the FE's seat. We don't find it too taxing!
As for the 'kids' at Atlantic, recent examples now work for BA, Virgin, Cathay, Monarch, Britannia, JMC, Sabena, Easyjet, Atlas, Air Contractors, Brymon, BEA, BRAL, GBAirways and British Midland. If you have a problem with these pilots, I suggest you fly Ryanair, because that's about the only place you won't find an Atlantic graduate.
Never2Low, your incapacitation point applies to any two crew operation, but it is covered annually in training and presents few problems. As we are all just 'kids', we are far less likely to keel over and have a coronary in the first place.
Finally, Thank you CRX for your support. It's nice to see someone hase more brains than opinions.
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SBA
A really nice first posting on the this network Well thought out and logically put.
By all accounts you know the Electra well.
No insult to freightdoggy but being a loadmaster can understand the limited info that he/she may possess about deboosting the Allison 501 D13 engine. But you as a "pilot??" must have first hand experience of this procedure. Could you explain this to me and whether the TD amp system should be in the controlled or locked phase.
As for the two crewmen I salute the progress made from FE to pilot. The captain is an FE TRE you state Who does he check and where. I assume on the sim at coventry. How does he do his line check? Moves from the LHS and sits in the centre one during flight maybe!
Your first post raises so many questions I dearly hope you as a pilot can enlighten me
PS Do you know what props the aircraft had Hamilton or aero products apparently these is an easy way to tell so I have been told
[This message has been edited by Engineer (edited 28 March 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Engineer (edited 28 March 2001).]
A really nice first posting on the this network Well thought out and logically put.
By all accounts you know the Electra well.
No insult to freightdoggy but being a loadmaster can understand the limited info that he/she may possess about deboosting the Allison 501 D13 engine. But you as a "pilot??" must have first hand experience of this procedure. Could you explain this to me and whether the TD amp system should be in the controlled or locked phase.
As for the two crewmen I salute the progress made from FE to pilot. The captain is an FE TRE you state Who does he check and where. I assume on the sim at coventry. How does he do his line check? Moves from the LHS and sits in the centre one during flight maybe!
Your first post raises so many questions I dearly hope you as a pilot can enlighten me
PS Do you know what props the aircraft had Hamilton or aero products apparently these is an easy way to tell so I have been told
[This message has been edited by Engineer (edited 28 March 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Engineer (edited 28 March 2001).]
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Engineer. Happy to reply to your questions on the Electra, but as I am new to this, I can't quite get a grip on whether you are really interested, or just trying to catch me out. You have the benefit of the doubt, so here goes.
DeBoosting relates to the hydraulically assisted controls, which will gust lock should both hydraulic systems fail, or the electrical systems driving the hydraulics fail. In this event, three handles for elevator, rudder and aileron will override the hydraulic boost packs and give a mechanical advantage to the manual controls, leaving the aircraft heavy but manageable. The handles are located on the forward front area of the centre console, to the left side.
The TD amp trims the fuel input to the engine, and therefore the TIT. It has two positions, Locked and Controlled. We always operate in controlled, which in theory will prevent any turbine overtemp. The locked position will hold the fuel trim set by the amp, even with power lever movements, and has little or no useful purpose within the confines of our operation.
Regarding the props, they are aeroproducts. To the best of my knowledge, the only european example with Hamilton Standard props is G-FIZU, which is owned by Atlantic, but currently on long term dry lease to Channex. The aeroproducts prop has square tips, whereas the Hamilton Standard has round tips.
The Captain on G-LOFD is a current F/E TRE on the DC6. This is going to attract another torrent of anti Atlantic abuse about operation of multiple types, but we are happy with it, and I suspect the rest of you are just jealous.
Finally, will G-LOFD fly again. The odds look good at the moment, but she is obviously still to undergo some fairly stringent inspections.
Hope that answers all the questions. Thanks for the response.
DeBoosting relates to the hydraulically assisted controls, which will gust lock should both hydraulic systems fail, or the electrical systems driving the hydraulics fail. In this event, three handles for elevator, rudder and aileron will override the hydraulic boost packs and give a mechanical advantage to the manual controls, leaving the aircraft heavy but manageable. The handles are located on the forward front area of the centre console, to the left side.
The TD amp trims the fuel input to the engine, and therefore the TIT. It has two positions, Locked and Controlled. We always operate in controlled, which in theory will prevent any turbine overtemp. The locked position will hold the fuel trim set by the amp, even with power lever movements, and has little or no useful purpose within the confines of our operation.
Regarding the props, they are aeroproducts. To the best of my knowledge, the only european example with Hamilton Standard props is G-FIZU, which is owned by Atlantic, but currently on long term dry lease to Channex. The aeroproducts prop has square tips, whereas the Hamilton Standard has round tips.
The Captain on G-LOFD is a current F/E TRE on the DC6. This is going to attract another torrent of anti Atlantic abuse about operation of multiple types, but we are happy with it, and I suspect the rest of you are just jealous.
Finally, will G-LOFD fly again. The odds look good at the moment, but she is obviously still to undergo some fairly stringent inspections.
Hope that answers all the questions. Thanks for the response.
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I have no doubt that the captain can reach down and de-boost the controls on the electra but is it a good idea ?.
the most likely chain of events is that an electrical problem would lead to the loss of A & B buss bars and so all hydrulic pumps so the drill has to be done in the dark on standby instruments add to this the 50% chance that the captain is PF then i think that the workload is going to be very high, i think i would far rather have another crew member to run the de-boost/electrical failure drill wile the captain flys the aircraft on the standby horizon without having to take his hands off the controls to reach the de-boost controls.
the most likely chain of events is that an electrical problem would lead to the loss of A & B buss bars and so all hydrulic pumps so the drill has to be done in the dark on standby instruments add to this the 50% chance that the captain is PF then i think that the workload is going to be very high, i think i would far rather have another crew member to run the de-boost/electrical failure drill wile the captain flys the aircraft on the standby horizon without having to take his hands off the controls to reach the de-boost controls.
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A & C,
If Bus A and Bus B are lost, and therefore both hydraulic pumps, the controls will be gust locked.
I can't see that it makes any difference who is holding the control column in this situation. In fact, part of the de-boost drill is to ensure that no pressure is applied to the control whilst de-boosting (ie Let go of the controls).
If Bus A and Bus B are lost, and therefore both hydraulic pumps, the controls will be gust locked.
I can't see that it makes any difference who is holding the control column in this situation. In fact, part of the de-boost drill is to ensure that no pressure is applied to the control whilst de-boosting (ie Let go of the controls).
