BA 2166 from Tampa
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Looking for the signals square at LHR
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For the travelling public to have the opportunity (albeit vicarious) to get into the office and be able to eavesdrop on coversations at the sharp end is, in this age of travelling paranoia, a wondrous thing and in my judgment Pprune is doing an excellent PR job here.
It does no harm for the SLF to have an appreciation (not the same as an understanding but that's not important) of the many and often complicated decisions that flight crew have to make and why - the thread on the VS low fuel into GTW is a good example.
The transport flight deck crew has always - I can say "always" as I once discussed this subject with Capt. Ollie at Croydon a very long time ago - been made up of well trained and thoroughly professional people. This is very evident from the postings on Pprune. The forthright and open manner in which things, good and bad, are discussed can only increase the level of confidence held by those sitting in the back in the ability of those sitting in the front.
From this standpoint, I feel that a rating system would be counter-productive and needlessly exclude a lot of people from the forum. The armchair pundits easily are recognised and the twoddle that many of them spout is just as easily ignored. But don't condemn the armchair brigade out of hand - many of us have been there before you and whilst the cockpit demands of my old DH114 differ from those of your modern seven four, I suspect the atmosphere and decision-making processes have changed not at all.
Junior trash
Join Date: Nov 1999
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Minimum crew is 8 as there are 8 exits.
Plastic PPRuNer
I'm sure it would be irritating at times, with trolls, halfwits, wannabees and the press ever eager to grasp the wrong end of the stick (just like PPRuNe), but we'd end up with a small segment of the public having a better understanding of how we work and the decisions that we make.
And that, I believe, is a function that PPRuNe fulfils rather well.
Join Date: May 2003
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That is true that 737's can operate with 3 crew, I used to do just that. However, on the 772, the min crew compliment is 8, 773 is 10, 744 is 12.
With 4 crew injured on the TPA, 7 remained fit to fly and the 8th exit was covered by the 2nd FO operating the flight.
With 4 crew injured on the TPA, 7 remained fit to fly and the 8th exit was covered by the 2nd FO operating the flight.
JAR-OPS minimum for 280 passengers would be 6 cabin crew - one per 50 pax seats or fraction thereof - if even one passenger is carried. What airlines and/or unions impose above this is up to them. For example, Lufthansa used to be able to offer a reasonable Business Class service from UK-Germany when they carried 4 cabin crew; ever since Apr 2004 when they reduced that to only 3, they have reduced their service standards to almost Ryanair levels.... But not their ticket prices.
Nothing at all to do with 'number of exits' - those will be scaled as required to meet the regulatory requirements of certification authorities.
Nothing at all to do with 'number of exits' - those will be scaled as required to meet the regulatory requirements of certification authorities.
People, the minimum crew for a B777 is 7 cabin attendants for any seating configuration between 291 and 340 passenger seats...Regardless the actual number of pax on board. It says so in my flight manuals. (JAA)
Besides that, I can imagine a light aircraft or glider or similar coming too close to the big jet, because it didn't have a transponder. That's why it is called "indian territory" below 18,000 ft in the USA. Keep a sharp lookout for VFR non-transponding cherokees, archer, warriors and seminoles...
And Danny, your marvellous creation we all call PPRuNe owes its existence to the fact that anyone can join in and ask questions. This thread was started by someone who doesn't know anything about flying but asked a genuine question. And that is perfectly allright. For some reason other posters found it necessary to contaminate this thread with newspaper-type one-liners. Let them! Real professionals are able to distinguish between real remarks and bogus ones.
Besides that, I can imagine a light aircraft or glider or similar coming too close to the big jet, because it didn't have a transponder. That's why it is called "indian territory" below 18,000 ft in the USA. Keep a sharp lookout for VFR non-transponding cherokees, archer, warriors and seminoles...
And Danny, your marvellous creation we all call PPRuNe owes its existence to the fact that anyone can join in and ask questions. This thread was started by someone who doesn't know anything about flying but asked a genuine question. And that is perfectly allright. For some reason other posters found it necessary to contaminate this thread with newspaper-type one-liners. Let them! Real professionals are able to distinguish between real remarks and bogus ones.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I do hope someone will post the status of those injured.
I know of a number of situations in which injuries grew worse over a course of days, particularly spinal injuries.
I know of one flight attendent (not on this flight) who was injured when the cockpit crew failed to give the standard signal prior to takeoff to make sure f/a's were strapped in.
That flight attendent fell down as the engines came up to power and has never flown again...the captain never appologized.
Things do happen.
Anyone know how the injured are doing today?
jon
I know of a number of situations in which injuries grew worse over a course of days, particularly spinal injuries.
I know of one flight attendent (not on this flight) who was injured when the cockpit crew failed to give the standard signal prior to takeoff to make sure f/a's were strapped in.
That flight attendent fell down as the engines came up to power and has never flown again...the captain never appologized.
Things do happen.
Anyone know how the injured are doing today?
jon
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Have to say I was impressed with wow400's post and in particular medilink support mentioned ..... post #27
The subject of injury en-route is not a simple one and I rem a similar incident reported only a few weeks ago ..... see http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/publicati...36__g_viip.cfm
The crew with onboard and remote medical advice did their best but the incident report ends with a distressing discovery upon landing .....
Life is not easy ... that's for sure ....
The subject of injury en-route is not a simple one and I rem a similar incident reported only a few weeks ago ..... see http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/publicati...36__g_viip.cfm
The crew with onboard and remote medical advice did their best but the incident report ends with a distressing discovery upon landing .....
Life is not easy ... that's for sure ....
Join Date: Oct 2006
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And then us professionals could put 'em right, so their views would be a little better informed!
I'm sure it would be irritating at times, with trolls, halfwits, wannabees and the press ever eager to grasp the wrong end of the stick (just like PPRuNe), but we'd end up with a small segment of the public having a better understanding of how we work and the decisions that we make.
And that, I believe, is a function that PPRuNe fulfils rather well.
I'm sure it would be irritating at times, with trolls, halfwits, wannabees and the press ever eager to grasp the wrong end of the stick (just like PPRuNe), but we'd end up with a small segment of the public having a better understanding of how we work and the decisions that we make.
And that, I believe, is a function that PPRuNe fulfils rather well.
Join Date: May 2002
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.......and what a sad forum this would be, to be sure, if it was only populated by Professional Pilots without any comments from other airline workers, wannabes and aviation enthusiasts!
For a start, it would stop comments like mine who only wanted to praise the Gatwick Flying Staff involved! Knowing you as I do, I know why British Airways employed you and it's incidents like this, where you can be relied upon to do the right thing!
I may have taken myself off to Terminal One in order to try to kick-start my career, but Gatwick and its wonderful team will always have a special place in my heart!
Take care of yourselves - You'll always be a Nigel!
For a start, it would stop comments like mine who only wanted to praise the Gatwick Flying Staff involved! Knowing you as I do, I know why British Airways employed you and it's incidents like this, where you can be relied upon to do the right thing!
I may have taken myself off to Terminal One in order to try to kick-start my career, but Gatwick and its wonderful team will always have a special place in my heart!
Take care of yourselves - You'll always be a Nigel!
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If we regard Pilots, Engs and ATC as operational staff, couldn't we just make the flight crew forum "Read Only" to non-operational staff (i.e. pax, spotters, everybody else) and have the questions forum for when non-ops folk want to ask the hows and whys?
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Well I for one naturally believe that PPrune might contribute less to the common good if posting by non-ops was restricted!
Referring back to that report of the G-VIIP turbulence incident that hobie linked to a few posts back, I read:
My physics is rusty, but from that snippet I have estimated that the worst jolt in that turbulence may have caused a relative DOWN acceleration of about 0-140mph in 2 secs - is that right??
Had everyone/everything been strapped in and no-one hurt, would the airframe normally require some kind of engineer inspection after such a flight? What kind of jolt would break it?
Referring back to that report of the G-VIIP turbulence incident that hobie linked to a few posts back, I read:
The aircraft entered the cloud and experienced two or three large jolts over a period of approximately 10 seconds. It then exited the cloud and the turbulence dissipated.
The aircraft’s flight data recorder revealed that during the turbulence, the aircraft experienced a maximum vertical acceleration of 1.633g and a minimum
of -0.023g two seconds later. There was also an uncommanded autothrottle disconnection.
The aircraft’s flight data recorder revealed that during the turbulence, the aircraft experienced a maximum vertical acceleration of 1.633g and a minimum
of -0.023g two seconds later. There was also an uncommanded autothrottle disconnection.
Had everyone/everything been strapped in and no-one hurt, would the airframe normally require some kind of engineer inspection after such a flight? What kind of jolt would break it?
Join Date: Dec 2005
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an extreme turbulence event is likely to require an inspection.
while your story is interesting, it appears the plane was under control at least most of the time...surely a severe event, but extreme might actually be worse
and I hope none of us hit a truly "extreme" event.
while your story is interesting, it appears the plane was under control at least most of the time...surely a severe event, but extreme might actually be worse
and I hope none of us hit a truly "extreme" event.
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The best method to 'sanitize' the forums is to not respond to idiotic posts/trolls or at least simply put them succinctly in their place once and leave it at that.
Far too many "professionals" seem to want a bl
dy good row though. Wonder why ?
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< The best method to 'sanitize' the forums is to not respond to idiotic posts/trolls or at least simply put them succinctly in their place once and leave it at that.>
Of course this would lead to a one sided view of the world. How many sanitizers told Columbus the world was flat? Or told the Wright Brothers that "if God had intended man to fly, He would have given man wings"?
And who would sanitize the self appointed sanitizers?
Another great method would be to just call the forum something other than Professional Pilots rumor network.
I recall two good suggestions.
Of course this would lead to a one sided view of the world. How many sanitizers told Columbus the world was flat? Or told the Wright Brothers that "if God had intended man to fly, He would have given man wings"?
And who would sanitize the self appointed sanitizers?
Another great method would be to just call the forum something other than Professional Pilots rumor network.
I recall two good suggestions.
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How do you verify that an anonymous member actually is a Pilot, Eng or ATC
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Tampa
Gents and ladies
You have heard friom me before and the the Tampa incident was handled by the crew and ops in the best possible way. Believe you me if it wasn`t I would tell you all.
BA have their problems but safety is not one of them.
All credit to crew and ops.
Go well
You have heard friom me before and the the Tampa incident was handled by the crew and ops in the best possible way. Believe you me if it wasn`t I would tell you all.
BA have their problems but safety is not one of them.
All credit to crew and ops.
Go well
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
Join Date: May 1999
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Just a couple of points from a retired pilot.
1 Pilots should not take it personally if Cabin Staff attempt to sue the commander of the aircraft. As I understand it that is the way the law works. Are we all too eager to allow the cabin staff out of their seats with the seatbelt sign on? The aircraft was at 16000 going up at 2000fpm so 8 mins after TO with an 8 hr flight ahead. I always used to work on the basis that if it was bad enough for the passengers it was bad enough for the cabin staff.
2 With the high performance of modern twins and the limitations of TCAS only showing 2500 ft above and below it is common that the returns only give 40 secs notice.
1 Pilots should not take it personally if Cabin Staff attempt to sue the commander of the aircraft. As I understand it that is the way the law works. Are we all too eager to allow the cabin staff out of their seats with the seatbelt sign on? The aircraft was at 16000 going up at 2000fpm so 8 mins after TO with an 8 hr flight ahead. I always used to work on the basis that if it was bad enough for the passengers it was bad enough for the cabin staff.
2 With the high performance of modern twins and the limitations of TCAS only showing 2500 ft above and below it is common that the returns only give 40 secs notice.
Join Date: Dec 2000
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TCAS can be 'pointed' up or down, in which case the display will show you traffic up to about 7000ft above/below depending on whether it's pointing up or down.