Incident at EGPC/EGPD
Just for the record, which airline/s proceedures would, in your experience, allow that cock up?
In our QRH I have yet to find the tab "Allowed Cock Ups".
How about a bit of understanding here? While we have humans involved, things will go wrong - get used to it!
In our QRH I have yet to find the tab "Allowed Cock Ups".
How about a bit of understanding here? While we have humans involved, things will go wrong - get used to it!
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However, this is the point of LRs post where I would have some sympathy, and which you don't address:
Re returning to ABZ
I would have to have a bloody good reason to take an aircraft I knew had made contact with the ground on a long leg over water! OK EGPD has much better facilities for dealing with a possible emergency, but still...
Re returning to ABZ
I would have to have a bloody good reason to take an aircraft I knew had made contact with the ground on a long leg over water! OK EGPD has much better facilities for dealing with a possible emergency, but still...
Well, again without making any assumptions, we don't actually know that the crew were aware at the time of the runway scrape. I therefore am not prepared to make any judgement of anything subsequent to the G/A.
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Ranger I think you missed the point!
See the Electra pictures below my post!
I wouldn't be happy with you flying around with the inards of your aeroplane threatening to hit all and unsundry below you as you orbit to land.
If you suspect you f**ked up and suspect you may have broken the airframe best to stay on the ground no matter how embarrasing.
However, as one of the other poster pointed out we don't know for sure they realised they touched down. Which was my thoughts hence my response.
It makes no difference whether your a single seat thrill seeker or a capatilist venture merchant if you suspect you broken the airframe land as soon as practicable or stay on the ground if in circumstances simular to this don't try and advertise the damage by flying around the country side for all to see before landing again
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Turbo Power Lag
An earlier statement that there would have been a lag between seeking and getting go round power is false. I have recently converted from 737s to a modern turbo which approaches with about 100% rpm, power being controlled by prop pitch angle. Power response is much more rapid, not less, than a jet and is seemingly instantaneous
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I believe one prop has all the blades bent back.They also were extremely reluctant to declare an emergency into Aberdeen.Eastern say a warning light came on in the cockpit.
EGPC has the correct fire cover for that category of aircraft.EGPD is no different.
Lucky it all didn't go splat.
EGPC has the correct fire cover for that category of aircraft.EGPD is no different.Lucky it all didn't go splat.
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Caught up now, thanks. Very lucky indeed. Wick's tricky enough WITH the gear down! There's been a few incidents with undercarriage failures on Eastern Jetstreams - had one myself on a 31 charter out of Biggin Hill a year or so ago when the gear stuck down.
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I believe one prop has all the blades bent back.They also were extremely reluctant to declare an emergency into Aberdeen.Eastern say a warning light came on in the cockpit. EGPC has the correct fire cover for that category of aircraft.EGPD is no different.
Lucky it all didn't go splat.
EGPC has the correct fire cover for that category of aircraft.EGPD is no different.Lucky it all didn't go splat.
"Wheels up landing. Aircraft took off again. Aircraft returned to Aberdeen. Substantial damage."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/6045080.stm
Although a little bird has whispered in my ear that this may not be an entirely accurate quote. We shall see.
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I know nothing of this type, this airport, or this incident. What I will say, however, is this.
I infer from Sir Max's post that Wick is tricky, hence perhaps the decision to go back to an airport with a longer runway and with better emergency services.
However these guys figured out there was a problem, it was obviously very last minute. They reacted, kept it in the air and then, one must assume, figured out they were not about to drop out of the sky and would be able to make their preferred destination. I assume this because if they're like me they have no interest in dying any time soon and are going to do whatever they think has the lowest risk of death. Some of the posts here assume the pilots are members of the Jackass brigade, or maybe they were stoned teenagers out to show how hard they were.
Something went wrong, nobody died. That, then, is a victory. The rest needs to await the report, but I would say it is safe to assume that these guys would not have turned back to Aberdeen if they figured they'd drop before they got there. Can we please credit them with some basic human instinct to stay alive, even if we don't wish to praise their airmanship (and, for the record, from what I read here, I'm sitting in the "Brilliant job to save the plane and all on board, boys" camp.)
I infer from Sir Max's post that Wick is tricky, hence perhaps the decision to go back to an airport with a longer runway and with better emergency services.
However these guys figured out there was a problem, it was obviously very last minute. They reacted, kept it in the air and then, one must assume, figured out they were not about to drop out of the sky and would be able to make their preferred destination. I assume this because if they're like me they have no interest in dying any time soon and are going to do whatever they think has the lowest risk of death. Some of the posts here assume the pilots are members of the Jackass brigade, or maybe they were stoned teenagers out to show how hard they were.
Something went wrong, nobody died. That, then, is a victory. The rest needs to await the report, but I would say it is safe to assume that these guys would not have turned back to Aberdeen if they figured they'd drop before they got there. Can we please credit them with some basic human instinct to stay alive, even if we don't wish to praise their airmanship (and, for the record, from what I read here, I'm sitting in the "Brilliant job to save the plane and all on board, boys" camp.)
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Yea but, no but....
Thought the idea of having 3 greens would indicate the gear was down and LOCKED....Can't imagine the sound of the plane scrapping along the ground, the prop taking junks out of the runway could have gone un-noticed by the passengers!!!! You'd be sitting there thinking you're about to die of northern exposure!!!
If the CVR is a 30 minute continual loop, then maybe the flight time from Wick -Aberdeen with one engine vibrating like mad tring to part company with the airframe, might have taken longer than 30 minutes, thus erasing for all time the true events.....
Surely, having had that near miss, and once you'd sorted yourself out, a mayday might be in order?? No point in keeping quiet, a signature had been left on the runway at Wick. I'd want help ready just in case the engine that hit the ground decided to part company with the aircraft, and you didn't make it across the sea back to Aberdeen!!!!!
If the CVR is a 30 minute continual loop, then maybe the flight time from Wick -Aberdeen with one engine vibrating like mad tring to part company with the airframe, might have taken longer than 30 minutes, thus erasing for all time the true events.....
Surely, having had that near miss, and once you'd sorted yourself out, a mayday might be in order?? No point in keeping quiet, a signature had been left on the runway at Wick. I'd want help ready just in case the engine that hit the ground decided to part company with the aircraft, and you didn't make it across the sea back to Aberdeen!!!!!
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P-3 gear-up go-around
This is a shot of a P-3 firefighter scraping its retardant tank as it touches down gear-up. It went around and landed safely. Only the retardant tank doors and fairings needed replacement.
From memory, I believe this shot was taken during the 2004 fire season, possibly in Oregon.
There was remarkably little talk of it at the time and I saved the picture although not any associated details.
The incident must be well known within the airtanker community so perhaps someone out there can complete the picture.
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Surely they cannot of had 3 greens or even checked to see if they had 3 greens if the u/carriage was not down and locked. The flight to ABZ would have been about 30 mins therefore the CVR would have been over written, so no proof of a checklists being carried out. If there was a problem with the u/carriage at Wick, then how come it worked Ok at ABZ ?
It will be interesting to see what action Eastern Airways take against the crew and who is to blame.
It will be interesting to see what action Eastern Airways take against the crew and who is to blame.
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3 greens
Hotel Uniform Yankee, have you heard if any explanation has been given for 'the gear up landing'? Interesting point you made about the undercarriage coming down as normal at Aberdeen, does beg the question doesn't it.....Is the CVR a 30 minute loop on the aircraft in question?
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Hotel Uniform Yankee and Yakshimash, do you think the crew could have opened the emergency hydraulics panel and attached the pump handle and then maybe manually pumped the gear down before they landed at ABZ. That's one method they may have used. Perhaps they consulted a magic spell book,said a few magic words and hoped for the best. Were you really being serious when you commented on how the gear was down for the landing at ABZ
? The Jetstream is a little more advanced than a PA28
.
? The Jetstream is a little more advanced than a PA28 .
