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Incident at EGPC/EGPD

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Incident at EGPC/EGPD

Old 3rd Oct 2006, 19:48
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Incident at EGPC/EGPD

Just heard on the jungle drums......
Turboprop 'landed' gear up at EGPC. A/c got airborne again, lowered gear manually and diverted to EGPD!
Yikes.
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Old 3rd Oct 2006, 21:20
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If it landed gear up I wouldn't expect there to be enough prop left spinning to get it airborne again. Low approach go-around maybe?
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Old 3rd Oct 2006, 21:54
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I rem a similar incident and I'm pretty sure it ripped one of the engines off .... a/c kept going/went around and eventually landed safely ..... but for the life of me I can't rem where or when ? ....

have a feeling it was a 4 engine job ....
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Old 3rd Oct 2006, 22:05
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Hobie, Think your refering to the Electra at Shannon some years ago

Got a feeling this may well have been EZE567 (T3567 ABZ WIC) if it is then that will be the second J32 thay have used to sign that runway with the prop tips.

ERA Golden award.......
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Old 3rd Oct 2006, 22:17
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have a feeling it was a 4 engine job ....
Are you perhaps thinking of Channel Express' L-188 in SNN back in 1999? They did a gear up touch and go after getting a GPWS warning and landed with only one engine undamaged. The plane, N285F, was scrapped (and scraped) after the mishap.

About twenty years ago, Pan Am had a gear up touch and go in Berlin at Tegel on a 737 type rating ride with the FAA on board. Most of the hydraulics were scrapped off the engines and a boost out pattern was flown with manual gear extension and air brakes on the second landing. Since the fed was a PAA furloughee, supposedly the incident was never officially reported and the plane was quietly repaired at TXL. As was a common technique in those days, the gear horn circuit breaker had been pulled for the planned no flap landing to finish the check ride.
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Old 4th Oct 2006, 09:31
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A Jetstream came in with wheels up and apparently with three greens in the cockpit, somehow the pilots realised without anyone from ATC/RFFS telling them it was missing and then climbed away at the last minute but did clip the runway with tail or underside of baggage pod.

They then flew round while “manually” getting the gear down before returning to Aberdeen.

?????
How did they know the gear was up if they had 3 greens showing in the cockpit, funny to me!

The aircraft had been in maintenance over the weekend though.
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Old 4th Oct 2006, 11:16
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Originally Posted by Northern Listener
How did they know the gear was up if they had 3 greens showing in the cockpit, funny to me
Me too but perhaps they could see their shadow?
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Old 4th Oct 2006, 11:26
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Or maybe realised they hadn't yet made contact with terra-firma when they usually do... cue lots of sweating and change of underwear.

Either way, good call to go around.

RR
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Old 4th Oct 2006, 12:13
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or maybe the "TOO LOW, GEAR" GPWS runs off a different microswitch from the cockpit indicator lights?

Back in the dim past when in the 757 sim a lack of gear lights was a non event unless we also got the GPWS and the gear disagree, but then a 75/76 is a bit more complicated than a Jetstream...
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Old 4th Oct 2006, 12:43
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Angry Once down stay down!!!!


I'm quite appauled having landed wheels up a pilot would then elect to do a go round.
No sorry gents there's no rational argument for this one!
Once an aircraft is down it stays down particularly if like in this case (And we can obviously only go and react to the facts presented here) If a landing results in contact with the ground with parts other than designed to.

My own experience literally post Falklands campaign a rather experienced Harrier jet jockey in front of the whole station along with various nations dignitaries came into land an promptly forgot to put the wheels down (No he did really! No technicalities he forgot!) he then promplty selected the nozzles down and initiated a short take off recovery knowing full well the aircraft had made contact with the ground.
All praise he brought it back safely but!!!! it was down and out and had travelled several hundred metres on its Aden cannon pods! with luckily very little other damage.
It could have been different of course!
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Old 4th Oct 2006, 12:54
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Re the L188 Electra gear up landing at Shannon.
Just for the record.

The aircraft was operated by Renown airlines on wet lease to Channel Express, so no Brit crew involved. Don't think procedures at Channex would allow that cock up!
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Old 4th Oct 2006, 12:54
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I guess it's one of those incidents where armchair observers will pontificate and muse for a few minutes before deciding what they would have done in the circumstances.


All nice and comfortable and all with the benefit of hindsight which helps no end.

In reality these guys/girls probably had about half a second in which to make up their minds as to the best course of action, quite possibly before first ground contact when the tower spoke up, or no shadow from the wheels or whatever.

It's not an event that probably crosses many pilots minds as to what they would do - that's why we have indicating systems and procedures shold they fail. Yes, we all mentally rehearse many scenarios, but I suspect not this one.

So, they had little notice and instinctively carried a manoeuvre which resulted in a safe outcome - I welcome the AAIB report, but in the meantime would find it hard and churlish to criticise.

There but for the grace of God ......
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Old 4th Oct 2006, 15:51
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Originally Posted by spannerless

I'm quite appauled having landed wheels up a pilot would then elect to do a go round.
No sorry gents there's no rational argument for this one!
Once an aircraft is down it stays down particularly if like in this case (And we can obviously only go and react to the facts presented here).......................
I guess that's why pilots get paid the money - to make their best judgement of how to handle any situation.
 
Old 4th Oct 2006, 16:02
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Originally Posted by spannerless
My own experience literally post Falklands campaign a rather experienced Harrier jet jockey in front of the whole station along with various nations dignitaries came into land an promptly forgot to put the wheels down (No he did really! No technicalities he forgot!) he then promplty selected the nozzles down and initiated a short take off recovery knowing full well the aircraft had made contact with the ground.
Oh come on, it's quite a different case when:
1. There's no-one else on board for whom you're responsible and
2. You can bang out if it all goes (even more) pear-shaped

R1
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Old 4th Oct 2006, 16:18
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Couple of photo's from the Electra incident mentioned above ....







NO. 3 .......



NO. 4 ..........
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Old 4th Oct 2006, 17:47
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The aircraft actually struck the ground. There are marks in the runway, both from pod and props. There was no last minute go around with no damage sustained. And unbelievably it did go back to ABZ. That sends a chill down my spine.
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Old 4th Oct 2006, 18:43
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/5405886.stm
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Old 4th Oct 2006, 19:44
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All right Lone Ranger, lets say you get into the flare (do you know what that is, I presume?) and you decide something isn't right (you haven't touched down yet when your experience says you should have), or at that point someone says something over the radio about your wheels not being down.

What do you do? The aircraft is flying almost level, anticipating touchdown, speed bleeding off.....

Quick, decide ......

You think {expletive deleted} ... we're still flying ... full power .. pull back to arrest rate of descent and to climb ... fly away (probably from about 100kts) covering about 150 metres per second ... a second later, and now about 500 metres from the threshold of a 1200 metre runway the propellor etc makes (slight?) contact with the surface ....

Quick, decide again, cut the power and controlled crash or continue - it's still flying ok ... 1 more second gone by ... another 150 metres .... sh1t ... not much runway left .... can we stop if we put it down ....too late.

Remember, all this has happened in about 1/10th of the time it took you to read it.


Now you reflect on their actions and still criticise if you dare without knowing the full facts....go on.
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Old 4th Oct 2006, 21:45
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At the time of the A/C coming into contact with the ground it did have an unusual "nose high" attitude, and taking into account the delay/time turboprops take to respond to throttle inputs it would suggest to me, in my humble opinion, that the realisation to the crew (by whatever means) that the gear was not down may have been earlier than anticipated by forum members.
i.e. they realised and reacted swiftly but due to this slight delay they were "unlucky" and struck the runway.

Or they were lucky that they onlt had 3 pax on board when they did strike other wise it may have been a very different ending.
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Old 4th Oct 2006, 22:00
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Originally Posted by TopBunk
All right [B]Lone Ranger[/B... You think {expletive deleted} ... we're still flying ... full power .. pull back to arrest rate of descent and to climb ... fly away (probably from about 100kts) covering about 150 metres per second ... a second later, and now about 500 metres from the threshold of a 1200 metre runway the propellor etc makes (slight?) contact with the surface ....

Quick, decide again, cut the power and controlled crash or continue - it's still flying ok ... 1 more second gone by ... another 150 metres .... sh1t ... not much runway left .... can we stop if we put it down ....too late.

...Now you reflect on their actions and still criticise if you dare without knowing the full facts....go on.
I agree, armchair quarterbacking (as we call it in the USA) is too easy. However, this is the point of LRs post where I would have some sympathy, and which you don't address:

And unbelievably it did go back to ABZ
I would have to have a bloody good reason to take an aircraft I knew had made contact with the ground on a long leg over water! OK EGPD has much better facilities for dealing with a possible emergency, but still...

R1
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