Comair CRJ crash in Kentucky
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I find this comment interesting:
“The board is concerned that, in the case of the Comair flight 5191 accident, both pilots recognized the unlighted runway during the takeoff roll but did not use that information to reevaluate whether they were on the correct runway for takeoff,” the letter says.
“The board is concerned that, in the case of the Comair flight 5191 accident, both pilots recognized the unlighted runway during the takeoff roll but did not use that information to reevaluate whether they were on the correct runway for takeoff,” the letter says.
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Regarding the health of F/O Polehinke..
Business and Commercial Aviation magazine reported in the November 2006 issue, that his family said that his left leg has been amputated and he faces several more major sugeries.
A low level of an "over-the-counter" decongestant was detected in his blood, but no other illicit substance or alcohol. As stated, he has still no recollection of the accident.
I wish him the best in what will no doubt be a long difficult road to recovery.
Business and Commercial Aviation magazine reported in the November 2006 issue, that his family said that his left leg has been amputated and he faces several more major sugeries.
A low level of an "over-the-counter" decongestant was detected in his blood, but no other illicit substance or alcohol. As stated, he has still no recollection of the accident.
I wish him the best in what will no doubt be a long difficult road to recovery.
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Anniversary article
The easiest thing in the world to do, says the 35-year-old widow, is "blame the dead guy."
http://kentucky.com/news/state/story/153138.html
http://kentucky.com/news/state/story/153138.html
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Dumb Question
Silly question from non-pilot. Why not mark the bearing and possibly distance remaining at intervals on the runway? It's cheap, never goes wrong, and is used extensively by road engineers.
OK. Steel helmet, flak jacket, entrenching tool.
OK. Steel helmet, flak jacket, entrenching tool.
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fyi
TGOP
Simple explanation:
http://www.pilotfriend.com/training/.../rnwy_mark.htm
A little more informative:
http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff...M/chap2toc.htm
Simple explanation:
http://www.pilotfriend.com/training/.../rnwy_mark.htm
A little more informative:
http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff...M/chap2toc.htm
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SADLY
you see, many airports do have distance remaining signs...they are very nice
as far as bearing, the numbers at the beginning of the runway are the bearing with the "0" left off the end...
all takeoffs should be made with the plane sitting on top of the "NUMBERS", but they aren't always that way.
the answer to "why don't they"...MONEY.
Its all about money. Pilots are encouraged to move things along by their company, by ATC...time is money...so why taxi back 200 feet to start from the numbers...that would take an extra 2 minutes.
Aviation knows the right thing to do, but sadly its all about cost
Cost like making sure pilots from day one check compass to runway bearing
(when I was an active flight instructor, even my newest, lowest time students knew: TLC upon line up, cleared for takeoff
T=transponder on
L= lights on
C= compass...check with runway bearing.
and these students were with some 10 flying hours...not thousands.
Rant is through...put away your entrenching tool...a spoon will do.
as far as bearing, the numbers at the beginning of the runway are the bearing with the "0" left off the end...
all takeoffs should be made with the plane sitting on top of the "NUMBERS", but they aren't always that way.
the answer to "why don't they"...MONEY.
Its all about money. Pilots are encouraged to move things along by their company, by ATC...time is money...so why taxi back 200 feet to start from the numbers...that would take an extra 2 minutes.
Aviation knows the right thing to do, but sadly its all about cost
Cost like making sure pilots from day one check compass to runway bearing
(when I was an active flight instructor, even my newest, lowest time students knew: TLC upon line up, cleared for takeoff
T=transponder on
L= lights on
C= compass...check with runway bearing.
and these students were with some 10 flying hours...not thousands.
Rant is through...put away your entrenching tool...a spoon will do.
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I always thought those big white stripes and fat white numbers on the runway meant something. I'd better write a damning letter to ICAO and tell them they've got it all wrong
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we are talking about
in which way does your (tongue in cheek) remark about "big white stripes and fat white numbers on the runway" (which the pilot steering Comair 5191 could not see) help answer the question?
bearing and possibly distance remaining at intervals on the runway
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Chill!
The top of the page for the first link has a diagram of some basic distance markings on the runway. If you're being directed to another webpage with different information then my apologies.
The question asked by TGOP has nothing to do with whether the pilots saw the markings or not, but what information exists on any runway to denote distance remaining. Your typical FAA standard precision/non precision approach runway in the States will always have distance markers running alongside the centreline to tell you how much runway you've eaten up and once you're past the midpoint, how much is remaining (unless either end has a displaced threshold, in which case, a little maths is needed). So for TGOP's benefit, I put up that first link to show a simple diagram that illustrates one part of his/her question. The second link is there if he/she feels like expanding on that first diagram.
By asking about 'bearing' of the runway I'm assuming the question is with regards to the direction of the runway. Though it's not strictly the correct term as a runway has a 'heading' and is not considered 'bearing' from anything, unless you're using it as a navigation reference in relation to something else. I've heard plenty of non aviators/maritimers use the terms bearing/heading interchangeably, so if i've misunderstood TGOP's question then please feel free to add substance here.
Anyone, jump in here anytime if I've kakked up. TGOP, if you revisit this page please let me know if I've misunderstood your question.
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1. actually the runway has a static bearing...but we call it a heading as a short cut.
2. Those nice big ICAO markings are reserved for instrument runways...the shorter runway that the plane took off from was a day vfr runway only and didn't have the big fat stripes etc.
And if any pilots on this forum went to the same flying school/flight training that the captain and copilot went to, could you please let us know if checking runway alignment with compass was SOP prior to crash?
And did they ever get instructed in using the Localizer receiver to verify centerline of ILS equipped runways?
both are used, I've taught both.
just would like to know.
2. Those nice big ICAO markings are reserved for instrument runways...the shorter runway that the plane took off from was a day vfr runway only and didn't have the big fat stripes etc.
And if any pilots on this forum went to the same flying school/flight training that the captain and copilot went to, could you please let us know if checking runway alignment with compass was SOP prior to crash?
And did they ever get instructed in using the Localizer receiver to verify centerline of ILS equipped runways?
both are used, I've taught both.
just would like to know.
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Runway markings.
Thank you ML for the runway marking links. I was using "bearing" in the nautical sense as shorthand for magnetic compass bearing. Of course heading is the correct term. Such are the dangers of using jargon when one is not familiar with the subject.
As TH says, the pilots did not see the markings that would have alerted them to their mistake and considering the extraordinarily high level of safety in aviation training and equipment I wondered if the obvious had been overlooked.
My post was prompted by the poster who mentioned of the Honeywell ground GPS guidance system which would be very costly and slow to adopt. The saying; "to a man with a hammer all problems look like nails", came to mind.
Right, back to the bunker.
As TH says, the pilots did not see the markings that would have alerted them to their mistake and considering the extraordinarily high level of safety in aviation training and equipment I wondered if the obvious had been overlooked.
My post was prompted by the poster who mentioned of the Honeywell ground GPS guidance system which would be very costly and slow to adopt. The saying; "to a man with a hammer all problems look like nails", came to mind.
Right, back to the bunker.
jetsy
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Factual Report from the NTSB:
http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2007/AAR0705.pdf
And the media:
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/...ucky-Crash.php
http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2007/AAR0705.pdf
And the media:
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/...ucky-Crash.php