PIA pilot tested positive for alcohol in Oslo
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For those interested in the actual wording of the Road Traffic Act, go to:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988...en_2.htm#mdiv6
It goes on ad nauseam about the prescribed limit, until finally saying what the limit actually is in Section 11(2), reproduced here for those who don't want the fag of looking it up.
"the prescribed limit" means, as the case may require—
(a) 35 microgrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres of breath,
(b) 80 milligrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres of blood, or
(c) 107 milligrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres of urine,
or such other proportion as may be prescribed by regulations made by the Secretary of State.
Now although that 35 microgrammes is a tiny amount, remember it is only a "sample" of the alcohol in your breath, but it is directly proportional to the remainder of the alcohol from your three glasses of wine, which still remain inside you and haven't yet been metabolised.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988...en_2.htm#mdiv6
It goes on ad nauseam about the prescribed limit, until finally saying what the limit actually is in Section 11(2), reproduced here for those who don't want the fag of looking it up.
"the prescribed limit" means, as the case may require—
(a) 35 microgrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres of breath,
(b) 80 milligrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres of blood, or
(c) 107 milligrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres of urine,
or such other proportion as may be prescribed by regulations made by the Secretary of State.
Now although that 35 microgrammes is a tiny amount, remember it is only a "sample" of the alcohol in your breath, but it is directly proportional to the remainder of the alcohol from your three glasses of wine, which still remain inside you and haven't yet been metabolised.
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Just_Testing, and anybody else reading this:
I realise this is somewhat O/T and maybe should by now be moved to the Tech Log..... But I thought it would be interesting to let the subject run its course and get the questions answered.
Blood: 80mg/100ml = 0.8g/ltr = 4g/5 ltr (5ltr being the typical blood volume in the human body)
Urine: 107mg/100ml = 1.07g/ltr = 0.5g/0.5ltr (about the normal human limit, I would think).
That's 4.5 g accounted for.
Three glasses of wine contain in the order of 40 to 50g of alcohol..... where's the remainder? They won't yet have been metabolised, as you said... that takes several hours. I would expect most of them to have been absorbed in the bloodstream after an hour or so.... clearly not.... there's an order of magnitude difference.
Any clues?
Baffled Boffin.
Edit: the rest of the technical discussion has now been moved to a new thread in Tech Log called Calculating Alcohol Levels, where it really belonged anyway.
The final answer is simply that most of the alcohol diffuses in the body tissues, with only about 10% remaining in the bloodstream. See the thread in Tech Log for details.
I realise this is somewhat O/T and maybe should by now be moved to the Tech Log..... But I thought it would be interesting to let the subject run its course and get the questions answered.
..."the prescribed limit" means, as the case may require—
(a) 35 microgrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres of breath,
(b) 80 milligrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres of blood, or
(c) 107 milligrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres of urine...
Now although that 35 microgrammes is a tiny amount, remember it is only a "sample" of the alcohol in your breath, but it is directly proportional to the remainder of the alcohol from your three glasses of wine, which still remain inside you and haven't yet been metabolised.
(a) 35 microgrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres of breath,
(b) 80 milligrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres of blood, or
(c) 107 milligrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres of urine...
Now although that 35 microgrammes is a tiny amount, remember it is only a "sample" of the alcohol in your breath, but it is directly proportional to the remainder of the alcohol from your three glasses of wine, which still remain inside you and haven't yet been metabolised.
Urine: 107mg/100ml = 1.07g/ltr = 0.5g/0.5ltr (about the normal human limit, I would think).
That's 4.5 g accounted for.
Three glasses of wine contain in the order of 40 to 50g of alcohol..... where's the remainder? They won't yet have been metabolised, as you said... that takes several hours. I would expect most of them to have been absorbed in the bloodstream after an hour or so.... clearly not.... there's an order of magnitude difference.
Any clues?
Baffled Boffin.
Edit: the rest of the technical discussion has now been moved to a new thread in Tech Log called Calculating Alcohol Levels, where it really belonged anyway.
The final answer is simply that most of the alcohol diffuses in the body tissues, with only about 10% remaining in the bloodstream. See the thread in Tech Log for details.
Last edited by ChristiaanJ; 6th Sep 2006 at 12:43. Reason: Edit added.
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Mr Phileas Fogg, sir....
We knew that....
A man with yuor travel experience round the world should know that both in Sweden and in Norway the blood alcohol limit is 0.2g/ltr (or 20mg/100ml, or 0.02%, whichever you are more familiar with).
The EU doesn't have a uniform limit, either.
Oslo isn't in the EU
A man with yuor travel experience round the world should know that both in Sweden and in Norway the blood alcohol limit is 0.2g/ltr (or 20mg/100ml, or 0.02%, whichever you are more familiar with).
The EU doesn't have a uniform limit, either.
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pilots discipline
Hmmm..... lets see...
Turns up at the airport,
In a pilots uniform
Reeks of grog
Gets tested, blows the limit
Admits to 'drinkin sum viskey'
..but had no intention of flying..
gets thrown in the clink,
And now someone suggests the union 'get him out of Oslo and back to Pakistan'? gee i'm glad I wasn't on the flight, or on any flight operated by members of a union who bust their buddies out of jail when they have OBVIOUSLY turned up tanked at the gate!
Turns up at the airport,
In a pilots uniform
Reeks of grog
Gets tested, blows the limit
Admits to 'drinkin sum viskey'
..but had no intention of flying..
gets thrown in the clink,
And now someone suggests the union 'get him out of Oslo and back to Pakistan'? gee i'm glad I wasn't on the flight, or on any flight operated by members of a union who bust their buddies out of jail when they have OBVIOUSLY turned up tanked at the gate!
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Mr Phileas Fogg, sir....We knew that....
A man with yuor travel experience round the world should know that both in Sweden and in Norway the blood alcohol limit is 0.2g/ltr (or 20mg/100ml, or 0.02%, whichever you are more familiar with).
The EU doesn't have a uniform limit, either.
A man with yuor travel experience round the world should know that both in Sweden and in Norway the blood alcohol limit is 0.2g/ltr (or 20mg/100ml, or 0.02%, whichever you are more familiar with).
The EU doesn't have a uniform limit, either.
There are previous post(s) in this thread quoting EU regulations that have diddly squat to do with countries outside of the EU, this thread relates to an incident that took place in Norway so any EU regulation has got diddly squat to do with it.
I recently had communications with a pilot who had been terminated from a Middle East airline, he claimed that they had been operating illegally and justified this by quoting EU & JAA legislation, since when has the Middle East be in the EU & JAA and likewise since when has Norway been in the EU?
And yes, I have travelled extensively but why on this earth should an extensive traveller, who is not a pilot, be aware of blood/alcohol limitations in Norway or Sweden or indeed anywhere else?
PF
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It was mentioned awhile back on a thread concerning the crew of a Lufthansa flight (if memory serves me correctly) departing form Helsinki, that the legal limits may vary quite significantly form country to country. For those operating out of Finland, be advised that the Finnish Aviation Act stipulates a zero-limit. The wording of the paragraph in question states that a flight crewmember (amongst others) whose blood alcohol level is elevated due to the consumption of alcohol, is not allowed to operate a flight.
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PF,
I'd have thought it was useful to know whether you could have a beer or a glass of wine with your lunch wthout going over the legal limit for driving your hire car afterwards....
Anyway, 2dmoon and I just were trying to work out why the figures didn't line up, not the legal limit in Norway.
Legal limits for cars seem to vary widely, from 0 to 0.1% and everything in between. For aircraft I would expect them to be a lot less than the 0.08% or 0.05% which still seem to be prevalent in most countries.
Cosmo,
Strictly speaking I would have thought a "zero" limit would be unenforceable, because the body itself (digestion, etc.) produces very small quantities of alcohol. Men, women and children all have a natural blood alcohol level in the order of 0.003%, not "zero-zero".
... why should an extensive traveller, who is not a pilot, be aware of blood/alcohol limitations ... anywhere?
Anyway, 2dmoon and I just were trying to work out why the figures didn't line up, not the legal limit in Norway.
Legal limits for cars seem to vary widely, from 0 to 0.1% and everything in between. For aircraft I would expect them to be a lot less than the 0.08% or 0.05% which still seem to be prevalent in most countries.
Cosmo,
Strictly speaking I would have thought a "zero" limit would be unenforceable, because the body itself (digestion, etc.) produces very small quantities of alcohol. Men, women and children all have a natural blood alcohol level in the order of 0.003%, not "zero-zero".
Last edited by ChristiaanJ; 6th Sep 2006 at 12:49. Reason: Added figure for natural blood alcohol level.
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ChristiaanJ & M.Mouse
Looks as though posts have been removed to a new thread in Tech Log called Calculating Alcohol Levels, which IMHO is where they should have been in the first place. If one's livelihood depends upon staying 'sober' then, nomatter how that sobriety is 'tested', the only 100% safe route is abstinence. If this creates a problem for an individual, it is 'a drink problem' and, again IMHO, should be dealt with by seeking help, not by taking degree courses in chemistry and higher maths to 'beat the system'.
rts
Looks as though posts have been removed to a new thread in Tech Log called Calculating Alcohol Levels, which IMHO is where they should have been in the first place. If one's livelihood depends upon staying 'sober' then, nomatter how that sobriety is 'tested', the only 100% safe route is abstinence. If this creates a problem for an individual, it is 'a drink problem' and, again IMHO, should be dealt with by seeking help, not by taking degree courses in chemistry and higher maths to 'beat the system'.
rts
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Pilot sentenced to jail for 6 months...
In Norwegian:
http://www.nettavisen.no/ioslo/article741972.ece
http://www.nettavisen.no/ioslo/article741972.ece
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In Norwegian:
http://www.nettavisen.no/ioslo/article741972.ece
http://www.nettavisen.no/ioslo/article741972.ece
Still behind the curtain
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PIA Pilot
My Swedish is Ok, but there is some difference between Norwegian. I'll try my best.
The 48-year old first officer of a Pakistan International Airways was arrested by police after he measured 1.06 in promiles at Oslo airport on the 19th of August (2006).
In high court on Monday he received six months in prison.
The story goes on to say that Norwegian law allows 0.02 promiles on flight crew.
I hope the translation is correct.
The 48-year old first officer of a Pakistan International Airways was arrested by police after he measured 1.06 in promiles at Oslo airport on the 19th of August (2006).
In high court on Monday he received six months in prison.
The story goes on to say that Norwegian law allows 0.02 promiles on flight crew.
I hope the translation is correct.
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Thanks! Same as I read.
106 mg per 100 ml is way over the limit for drivers just about anywhere.... so he had it coming....
20 mg per 100 ml is the limit for drivers in Norway and Sweden.
Limit in "per thousand" for civil aviation pilots is 0.2, i.e., the same as for drivers, interestingly.
106 mg per 100 ml is way over the limit for drivers just about anywhere.... so he had it coming....
20 mg per 100 ml is the limit for drivers in Norway and Sweden.
Promillegrensen for piloter i sivil luftfart er bare 0,2.
