Asiana Airliner Takes off without Cabin Crew
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Originally Posted by apaddyinuk
Let me guess....He failed to notice that he took off with the door open and only noticed that the crew were missing when he called back for a cup of tea!!!
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Originally Posted by FougaMagister
If this was indeed a positioning flight, then the flight crew may have closed/armed the doors themselves... maybe a subtle hint that the cabin crew are not there?
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Here's a possible precedent:
Fed up pilot leaves without passengers
May 14, 2003
Reuters -- A Czech pilot, exasperated by
a deliberate go-slow by protesting workers
at an Israeli airport, has flown back to
Prague without passengers and carrying
inbound baggage, an airline spokesman
says. The pilot for CSA Czech Airlines
who landed at Israel's international
airport on the outskirts of Tel Aviv at
5:15am was scheduled to make a return
flight 45 minutes later. But after
waiting 2 hours for airport workers to
unload and reload his plane, he gave up
and took off. "They allowed the 82
arriving passengers to disembark, but
no workers would take the luggage off
the plane. So we flew back and will
transport the luggage to Tel Aviv later,"
CSA spokesman Vaclav Kral in Prague said.
Israel Airports Authority spokesman Pini
Schiff said: "He (the pilot) waited for
as long as he did, then got approval
from the Czech authorities to leave
without passengers to Prague." CSA is
a member of the Sky Team alliance led
by Air France and Delta.
Fed up pilot leaves without passengers
May 14, 2003
Reuters -- A Czech pilot, exasperated by
a deliberate go-slow by protesting workers
at an Israeli airport, has flown back to
Prague without passengers and carrying
inbound baggage, an airline spokesman
says. The pilot for CSA Czech Airlines
who landed at Israel's international
airport on the outskirts of Tel Aviv at
5:15am was scheduled to make a return
flight 45 minutes later. But after
waiting 2 hours for airport workers to
unload and reload his plane, he gave up
and took off. "They allowed the 82
arriving passengers to disembark, but
no workers would take the luggage off
the plane. So we flew back and will
transport the luggage to Tel Aviv later,"
CSA spokesman Vaclav Kral in Prague said.
Israel Airports Authority spokesman Pini
Schiff said: "He (the pilot) waited for
as long as he did, then got approval
from the Czech authorities to leave
without passengers to Prague." CSA is
a member of the Sky Team alliance led
by Air France and Delta.
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Can remember being sat on the aircraft in MCO about ten years ago getting aircraft ready for departure and being told by local dispatcher of a similar incident. Sorry, senior moment, cant remember the airline after all those years but, basically as I remember. The Airline introduced an automatic passenger release. Flight deck reported on time but cabin crew delayed for some reason. No dispatcher in attendance, gate agent went ahead with automatic release of passengers. Flight deck doing their pre flight checks so busy. Gate agent came down with load sheet and pax manifest and confirmed all correct through gate, could not see crew member so assumed in the cabin, so left pax manifest in forward crew seat. The door was closed from the outside by the engineer (not sure if this was company policy or just being helpful) and jet way removed for on time departure. The fact no cabin crew were on board did not come to light until captain tried calling the crew for cabin secure checks etc. Very embarrassing incident had to reopen up and get the passengers back off. Never did hear why the crew were late or if one had been scheduled? May be there is a case for CRM.
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Originally Posted by Rolling Stone
The fact no cabin crew were on board did not come to light until captain tried calling the crew for cabin secure checks etc. May be there is a case for CRM.
Cheers
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Is this for real? Who closed the door (1L) prior to bushback? Wasn't there any contacts between cockpit/cabin crew prior to closing doors? This must be one of the most stupidest incidents I've heard in my aviation career. A lot of people are to be blamed but ultimately the captain.
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CRM in Asiana? Phew.....
The inside rumor told that it was a ferry flight to Daegu to pick passengers from Daegu. Even though the newspapaer said pilot called emergency communication with tower but it is not what it means. (The Korean Newspaper exaggerated its situation to sell their paper.) I guess pilot realized they left the cabin crew behind when they contact for T/O time and ETA report with company. Maybe ground staff told to pilot "crew on board" and "he will close the door"(It is not rare that ground crew close the door in ferry fight).
But anyway nobody can deny there is serious problem with CRM in Asiana. Especially between crews.
It looks like Asiana prefer this way. Because Asiana use cabin report against pilot. (Unfortunately pilots report against cabin crew’s wrong doing easily disappeared on process). Cabin crew ,in Asiana, usually think they are totally separate part and tend to deny pilot’s authority. Asiana makes them operate and check in separately to aircraft. Strangely but obvious , terrible even hostile, conflict exist. Most of cabin manager doesn’t report there duty to captain. They just seat there and wait until captain is looking for them.
A couple of years ago, one captain and cabin manager had serious conflict about who has authority over the duty crews. ( I know it is non-sense and you might never have seen this in any part of the world, but it was real in Aisna). Cabin manager insisted his superior officer is not captain but cabin supervisor in office and kept his arrogant attitude to Captain and order cabin crew not to add any kind of polite word to pilots. Captain couldn’t endure it anymore. He called all cabin crew and discussed about it when he land on destination. No matter how captain tried to persuade cabin manager, cabin manager never accept captain’s word. Finally captain gave up persuading purser and requested to change purser. I don’t know Asiana changed purser but this unbelievable event delay return flight more than 30 min and company put disciplinary board on it. The result? What do you think? What do you expecting?
Company put both of them in suspension from duty same amount of days (maybe a month?) without payment.
Is it fair? The order of A/C is not a matter, but the delay is problem.
I think Asiana’s one perfect goal is no matter what happen put the A/C depart on time. Rest of thing will be on pilot’s problem and pilot’s responsibility because A/C is out of gate. “It is ALL YOUR FAULT, CAPTAIN.”
I also have heard that one senior captain who expecting his retirement soon was threaten not to file purser’s wrong doing, who insist purser himself is a CRM instructor and crew inspector in Asiana. (I wonder what is crew inspector’s job over pilot. Is there any duty who can inspect pilot under the duty of CREW INSPECTOR as a member of cabin crew?). “You will retire in couple of months, why don’t you retire quietly without making any trouble with me?”
But anyway nobody can deny there is serious problem with CRM in Asiana. Especially between crews.
It looks like Asiana prefer this way. Because Asiana use cabin report against pilot. (Unfortunately pilots report against cabin crew’s wrong doing easily disappeared on process). Cabin crew ,in Asiana, usually think they are totally separate part and tend to deny pilot’s authority. Asiana makes them operate and check in separately to aircraft. Strangely but obvious , terrible even hostile, conflict exist. Most of cabin manager doesn’t report there duty to captain. They just seat there and wait until captain is looking for them.
A couple of years ago, one captain and cabin manager had serious conflict about who has authority over the duty crews. ( I know it is non-sense and you might never have seen this in any part of the world, but it was real in Aisna). Cabin manager insisted his superior officer is not captain but cabin supervisor in office and kept his arrogant attitude to Captain and order cabin crew not to add any kind of polite word to pilots. Captain couldn’t endure it anymore. He called all cabin crew and discussed about it when he land on destination. No matter how captain tried to persuade cabin manager, cabin manager never accept captain’s word. Finally captain gave up persuading purser and requested to change purser. I don’t know Asiana changed purser but this unbelievable event delay return flight more than 30 min and company put disciplinary board on it. The result? What do you think? What do you expecting?
Company put both of them in suspension from duty same amount of days (maybe a month?) without payment.
Is it fair? The order of A/C is not a matter, but the delay is problem.
I think Asiana’s one perfect goal is no matter what happen put the A/C depart on time. Rest of thing will be on pilot’s problem and pilot’s responsibility because A/C is out of gate. “It is ALL YOUR FAULT, CAPTAIN.”
I also have heard that one senior captain who expecting his retirement soon was threaten not to file purser’s wrong doing, who insist purser himself is a CRM instructor and crew inspector in Asiana. (I wonder what is crew inspector’s job over pilot. Is there any duty who can inspect pilot under the duty of CREW INSPECTOR as a member of cabin crew?). “You will retire in couple of months, why don’t you retire quietly without making any trouble with me?”
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Similar story
I've heard about a similar, but true, story from Iceland.
A Fokker F27 from a domestic carrier bound for Egilstadir, was late due to
late arriving cabin crew. To save time boarding was initiated with an other cabin crew off duty, on board. After boarding all 4 passengers the C/A left to go home and the plane just stood and waited for the late cabin member.
After approx 20 min time the door was closed and ground staff gave assistance to start up and off they went. (No "cabin clear" was given)
After 15 min flight a passenger showed up in the cockpit, asked the crew if it was possible to get a cup of coffee. He was told to contact the C/A.
He responded that no C/A was in the cabin, and also informed, when asked, that he was a regular commuter and as he and the other 3 passengers was inpatient to go, he had locked the door, as he had seen the C/A done so many times and he felt familiar with the procedure.
The aircraft did a 180, picked up the "no-show", was airborne again and finally the man got his cup of coffee.
A Fokker F27 from a domestic carrier bound for Egilstadir, was late due to
late arriving cabin crew. To save time boarding was initiated with an other cabin crew off duty, on board. After boarding all 4 passengers the C/A left to go home and the plane just stood and waited for the late cabin member.
After approx 20 min time the door was closed and ground staff gave assistance to start up and off they went. (No "cabin clear" was given)
After 15 min flight a passenger showed up in the cockpit, asked the crew if it was possible to get a cup of coffee. He was told to contact the C/A.
He responded that no C/A was in the cabin, and also informed, when asked, that he was a regular commuter and as he and the other 3 passengers was inpatient to go, he had locked the door, as he had seen the C/A done so many times and he felt familiar with the procedure.
The aircraft did a 180, picked up the "no-show", was airborne again and finally the man got his cup of coffee.
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Goddamn! I knew I was missing something when I bought back that bus the other day!!!
Thankfully I was fully trained up on the bev makers in order to get my mucker and I a cup of warm wet stuff. (Always be prepared for all eventualities is my motto)
Perhaps the flight crew were briefed that the crew at the other end would be operating the flight back and therefore weren't expecting crew, completed the secure drills, turned off the galleys, closed and armed the doors and got on with it????
Then, shock horror, ops calls up and says they've got grumpy cabin crew on the tarmac, mis/lack of communication, it certainly won't be the last time it happens.
Thankfully I was fully trained up on the bev makers in order to get my mucker and I a cup of warm wet stuff. (Always be prepared for all eventualities is my motto)
Perhaps the flight crew were briefed that the crew at the other end would be operating the flight back and therefore weren't expecting crew, completed the secure drills, turned off the galleys, closed and armed the doors and got on with it????
Then, shock horror, ops calls up and says they've got grumpy cabin crew on the tarmac, mis/lack of communication, it certainly won't be the last time it happens.
