ATC calls police to meet A/C because FO 'sounded drunk'

[Fokker28]

The title says it all, but hear is what our company communicated to us about the incident:

You may have heard of an incident in Portland on Monday the 22nd involving allegations of impairment of one of our pilots. Here are some facts:
The FAA noted some irregularities in radio communication and contacted the airline.
Before we could evaluate this information or respond, the FAA elected to conduct, via the Port Police, an interview and evaluation on their own. For reasons unknown, this was conducted in the crew lounge, in full public view, without any presumption of innocence or regard for the pilot's reputation.
We need to let you know that the allegations were found to be groundless and that the pilot remains on flying status and under no suspicion by the airline.
Please help us squelch any rumors and continue to presume the best of our pilots.

What's next? A breathalyzer every 5 minutes in the cockpit? My guess is that the crew and the ATC had some disagreement/conflict and the controller was out to exact some revenge.

Anybody else ever hear of anything similar (based solely on radio exchanges)?

[ayrprox]

you do hear people on the r/t who sound sluggish sometimes, but this is usually at 4am after they've just flown across the pond.to be honest at that time in the morning i probably don't sound full of the joys of spring myself.I certainly wouldn't be making any judgements on a pilot's impairment or lack there of based solely on how they sounded.what's next, premonitions?.

[green granite]

There was an incident awhile ago involing a private pilot at Cambridge who when given taxi clearance went the wrong way and went behind a C130 doing engine run ups, after several attemps to get it right he took off, infringed stansted's zone and eventually ran out of fuel and crashed killing himself. he was well over the leagle drink drive limit let alone flying limits, it turned out he'd lost his driving licence through drink driving. perhaps had ATC at Cambridge done the same thing perhaps a different outcome would have occurred (please don't think for a moment I'm in anyway criticising ATC here) but I appreciate it must be a very difficult call

[Hand Solo]

Maybe the next time ATC get themselves worked up at an airport I'm at I should call the police and tell them the tower staff are all half cut.

[bafanguy]

Originally Posted by green granite

but I appreciate it must be a very difficult call

GG,

"...difficult call." ? There is a list of terms that come to mind describing this incident which does not include "...difficult call.".

The kindest and most moderator-evading term would be "witch hunt". The terms get rapidly nastier from there on.

[PAXboy]

We can but hope that the lawyers of the airline will extract a public apology from the Police for the way in which they behaved (lack of privacy etc.). The chances of getting an apology from ATC must be zero, "We acted with the best possible intentions and are guardians of public saftey Blah Blah". However, if the the Police action is correctly reported, it is very, very, bad.

[RoyHudd]

ATC--expertise?

I wonder just what training the ATC person had had in voice recognition of a drunk person transmitting....precisely none, I reckon. And yet this person had the brilliance to contact the police. Who themselves are duty bound to react. In their inimitable fashion.

The world has gone mad, particularly the PC parts like U.K and U.S.A. Shades of the recent 146 episode at MAN, where a female passenger contacted the police about a suspected drunk flight crew. Who were stone cold sober.

Cheers folks.

(Not flying for a few days...need a drink after this reported stupidity!)

[Wizofoz]

The fact my keyboard can’t spell is not really pertinent to the point

Actually, just as pertinent as assuming you can form a reasnoble suspicion that someone is intoxicated on the basis of radio transmissions.

I note that whilst you suggest ATC was doing the right thing, you don't like someone making the same suggestion about you on just as little evidence.

Quid pro quo?

[amanoffewwords]

You're all assuming that this actually happened and does not qualify as a "contribution [that] may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions" category.

[green granite]

Originally Posted by bafanguy

GG,

"...difficult call." ? There is a list of terms that come to mind describing this incident which does not include "...difficult call.".

The kindest and most moderator-evading term would be "witch hunt". The terms get rapidly nastier from there on.

You are misreading my comment, the term "difficult call" refers to the possibility
that a controller could decide that, in his opinion, there are sufficient grounds for thinking that the person is drunk from his speech and actions, and refers to the case I cited, not the original posters case, which, as you say, is more of a piece of spiteful behaviour
.

[skysoarer]

Originally Posted by Fokker28

For reasons unknown, this was conducted in the crew lounge, in full public view, without any presumption of innocence or regard for the pilot's reputation.

That's just damned inconsiderate for both the airline and especially the crew, and I'm surprised at that kind of knee-jerk reaction. It's just not how you'd approach such a situation in terms of basic common sense, especially when the grounds proved to be unfounded.

Very unfair on the crew involved. Hopefully a one-off.

Sky

[Chesty Morgan]

A friend of mine was merrily working his way through the turn around a few months back. He happened to glance out at the airbridge and noticed a pair of coppers. Being the nice chap he is he ventured outside to ask if he could help with anything.
Coppers then proceeded to FORCE him in to a breathalyser test in front of the boarding passengers. Of course he refused and said he'd happily comply in a private area away from the passengers. At this point he was threatened with arrest for not complying.
Turns out a few days before hand the cleaning agency contract had come to an end at it seems they had been offered a worse deal than the one they were currently on.
Bring forth disgruntled cleaners who it seems had decided to "get back" at the airline by falsely reporting "alcoholic smells" on the flight deck.
Absolutely disgusting if you ask me! But it just goes to show you can't be too careful these days!

[clarityinthemurk]

Other possibilities include latent brain injury, temporary psychosis (brought about by environmental or other stressors), temporary stroke like event…..but these are ones for the medics.

[bafanguy]

Originally Posted by green granite

... a controller could decide that, in his opinion, there are sufficient grounds for thinking that the person is drunk from his speech and actions,
.

GG,

No controller will EVER be in that position in this, or any other, case. No controller will ever be in a position, from the receiving end of a radio, to judge the physical condition of a pilot muchless call in the dogs on him.

I occasionally get a bit down about being retired...until I read a thread like this and know why it's gonna take a good bit of money to get me off the front porch.

[Nov71]

If the a/c was about to depart, safety first. Escort f/o from a/c for 'medical' check. Slurred speech could indicate brain function impairment due to minor stroke, embolus, alcohol, lack of sleep etc. Same for arrivals.
Let management decide who pays for delays.
If the interview was conducted where non-involved 3rd parties could hear the (false) allegation and not the apology - sue for slander? Certainly poor situation management to reprimand in front of others.

I am all for aircraft safety legislation, but all laws can be abused and false allegations/overbearing authority should be penalised.

At least Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens) got an apology from the Yanks after being refused entry to US because his name sounded suspicious!

[6chimes]

No one seems to have mentioned that the pilot in question was not alone, he had a fellow pilot with him who would have surely seen the man drink himself into a stupor. Sounds like someone got out of the bed the wrong side or they had both sides as an option!

6

[SLFguy]

*Dons non-pilot flame retardant gear*........

Original post says "FAA noted some irregularities in radio transmission...." then goes on to imply that they had a guy on the ground quick enough to 'interview' the pilot concerned.
Two questions...(a) Am I incorrect in thinking the 'interview' in the lounge took place when the a/c landed?... if it was at a later date surely it would have been scheduled in an office, and (b) Does the FAA 'monitor' radio traffic in real time?

[The Nr Fairy]

Chesty:

Suggest your colleague gets a printed copy of http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FOD200328.pdf to keep.

Section 5.1.1 shows that legislation allows police officers to require a breathtest. Whether second hand reports of an "alcoholic smell" in a place where the police officer hasn't been counts as "reasonable suspicion" is dubious, in my mind. There is a power to board an aircraft if there is reasonable suspicion, however.

However, Section 5.1.4 is the one your colleague needed to be aware of. He was well within his rights to request it to be done in a non-public place, if my reading of the FODCOM is correct, but has no actual legal right to that. However the "ways and means" act of getting around this is may be to offer to provide the specimen but only in a private place - that way, there is no refusal.

[Chippie Chappie]

Well, The Nr Fairy, Section 5.4 goes a little into that. Are we getting to the stage that "Reasonable suspicion cannot be based on generalisations or stereotypical images of certain groups...."? Are pilots suffering from stereotype? I suggest there's growing evidence to support that we are.

The other interesting part of the FODCOM (UK, not US) is Section 6.3:

"Flight crew and cabin crew who are required to take a preliminary test, witha negative result, may decide that it is unsafe for them to operate because of the emotional impact."

Maybe you should just go sick, have the police make the announcement to the passangers that the test was negative, however the flight has been cancelled due to lack of crew?

Cheers,

Chips

[Oh that's super!]

Originally Posted by clarityinthemurk

Other possibilities include latent brain injury, temporary psychosis (brought about by environmental or other stressors), temporary stroke like event…..but these are ones for the medics.

Or being dog tired through over-work.

I can sound quite drunk (e.g. somewhat slurred speech) after 16 hours of work despite not having had a drop of alcohol in a week, and I know a number of people who also sound drunk when they are very tired.