Ryanair management back in court
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Ryanair management back in court
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...p?story=692399
Read this story and you would nearly believe that ryanair management gave a hoot about their employees.The fact is that nobody was intimidated and ryanair want to shut down this very effective form of communication for ryanairs pilots.
Read this story and you would nearly believe that ryanair management gave a hoot about their employees.The fact is that nobody was intimidated and ryanair want to shut down this very effective form of communication for ryanairs pilots.
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Once again Ryanair filling the pockets of the legal profession. I'd love to know what their score is on legal judgements; bet it's about 10 to 1 against.
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Extract from The European Human Rights Act.
ARTICLE 10
FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION
1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This Article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.
2. The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.
ARTICLE 11
FREEDOM OF ASSEMBLY AND ASSOCIATION
1. Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and to freedom of association with others, including the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.
2. No restrictions shall be placed on the exercise of these rights other than such as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others. This Article shall not prevent the imposition of lawful restrictions on the exercise of these rights by members of the armed forces, of the police or of the administration of the State.
FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION
1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This Article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.
2. The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.
ARTICLE 11
FREEDOM OF ASSEMBLY AND ASSOCIATION
1. Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and to freedom of association with others, including the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.
2. No restrictions shall be placed on the exercise of these rights other than such as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others. This Article shall not prevent the imposition of lawful restrictions on the exercise of these rights by members of the armed forces, of the police or of the administration of the State.
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Mark, I dont dispute that.
The judiciary, however, is a State body which must be cognisant of the EHRA. Equally, the clause
may have some bearing as most contracts specifically prohibit the wider dissemination of information which could be regarded as commercial in confidence.
The judiciary, however, is a State body which must be cognisant of the EHRA. Equally, the clause
for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence,
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Ryanair went to court yesterday to find out who is behind messages on its pilots website. The airline wants to know the identity of those people who go under the codenames 'ihateryanair', 'cantfly-wontfly' and others on the Ryanair European Pilots Association (REPA) website.
The REPA website was set up two years ago to give 'an anonymous and secure way for Ryanair pilots throughout Europe to communicate with each other'. According to the website, it 'allows Ryanair pilots to freely express their views on a range of industrial safety and professional issues'.
In the action, which began yesterday in the High Court, Ryanair is seeking a number of orders against Neil Johnston, an official with the trade union IMPACT; the Irish Airline Pilots Association and its British counterpart, BALPA.
The airline contends it has a duty to identify the persons behind the codenames. It claims the website was established by and is controlled by IALPA and BALPA. This is denied by both pilots' associations.
Ryanair claims the defendants have refused its requests to identify the persons behind the codenames and alleges they have sought to destroy records, registration details, databases and information relating to REPA members. It also claims that unknown persons, allegedly known to the defendants, are engaged in a concerted process of intimidation, bullying, harassment and criminal activity.
In an affidavit, Eddie Wilson, director of personnel with Ryanair, said that REPA, which was not a registered trade union, was set up in 2004 and its web site was designed to allow Ryanair pilots communicate with one another in a manner designed to obscure the identity of the person communicating through the use of codenames and password procedures.
The defendants deny the claims and say REPA was established to facilitate the organisation of pilots employed by Ryanair in order to protect those pilots and their employment within the industry. The case continues.
The REPA website was set up two years ago to give 'an anonymous and secure way for Ryanair pilots throughout Europe to communicate with each other'. According to the website, it 'allows Ryanair pilots to freely express their views on a range of industrial safety and professional issues'.
In the action, which began yesterday in the High Court, Ryanair is seeking a number of orders against Neil Johnston, an official with the trade union IMPACT; the Irish Airline Pilots Association and its British counterpart, BALPA.
The airline contends it has a duty to identify the persons behind the codenames. It claims the website was established by and is controlled by IALPA and BALPA. This is denied by both pilots' associations.
Ryanair claims the defendants have refused its requests to identify the persons behind the codenames and alleges they have sought to destroy records, registration details, databases and information relating to REPA members. It also claims that unknown persons, allegedly known to the defendants, are engaged in a concerted process of intimidation, bullying, harassment and criminal activity.
In an affidavit, Eddie Wilson, director of personnel with Ryanair, said that REPA, which was not a registered trade union, was set up in 2004 and its web site was designed to allow Ryanair pilots communicate with one another in a manner designed to obscure the identity of the person communicating through the use of codenames and password procedures.
The defendants deny the claims and say REPA was established to facilitate the organisation of pilots employed by Ryanair in order to protect those pilots and their employment within the industry. The case continues.
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The words I wish to describe the Ryanair management may or may not be compatible with British law, therefore I will keep my thoughts to myself, sufficed to say that I would in no way entertain the idea of even contemplating employment with this airline.
Here are two totally unrelated Wikipedia links:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryanair
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignancy
Here are two totally unrelated Wikipedia links:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryanair
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignancy
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Freedom of Expression is applicable to all, irrespective of whether directed at State owned industry. It does allow for Statutory exemption eg libel etc but IMO identification of authors should be covered by data protection or a Court ruling as part of a particular Court action, not a fishing trip eg journalist sources
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IF and its a big IF it can be shown by documentary evidence (ie the postings on the site) that entries are libelous or intimidating to FR or their staff, then under law they have a case, just ask the moderators here.
The rule is be careful how you frame anything you may post.
The rule is be careful how you frame anything you may post.
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Go not quietly into that good night.
ryanair want to shut down this very effective form of communication for ryanairs pilots.
The real story here, folks, is that IALPA and BALPA are beside themselves as Ryanair goes from strength to strength. Threatening their existance and very purpose as pilot unions, Ryanair is emasculating once proud and occasionally profitable airlines, and overwhelming their traditional markets with better service, hugely improved punctuality, the highest margins, lowest costs and greatest profitability on earth. Not surprisingly, then, these desperate and rather pathetic attempts at ingratiating themselves on a pilot corps who clearly don't want them, by whatever nefarious means and through whatever targets of opportunity, even with the offer of free representation (€€€ouch€€€), reflect a woefully turgid organisation who'll resort to pillory and threats, especially when the "quality of opinion" (morning Aloue) is discordant with their own. If you wish to understand unions, observe a group of capricious two years olds at play for half an hour. Disturbing, yet instructive parallels.
Unions in general, and pilot unions in particular, are, with tiresomely familiar regularity, the Angels of airline death and should be strenuously resisted to the last...no matter what. Understand that, Minuteman, and you understand me completely.
Last edited by Leo Hairy-Camel; 26th May 2006 at 09:52.
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No airline has ever gone out of business because it paid its staff too much or treated them too well.Airline staff deserve proper reward ,treatment,working conditions and respect from their employers.
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Hi V.things not going too well in the high court,i see.Pity that.Anyhow back to your post,they have become so banal,i just do not have the heart to pick it apart point by point.Sticks and stones may break my bones,but names will never hurt me.looks like it was all the pilots fault all along.such naughty boys for picking on poor old ryanair management.
Your post reminds me of A.H. in the bunker wondering where it all went wrong and blaming anyone but himself.
maybe der fuhrer would like to walk into the high court in the bollicky buff today to protest at the courts intimidation of his beloved pilots.as an aside might grab some of that oh so loved publicity,the egomaniac craves.
Your post reminds me of A.H. in the bunker wondering where it all went wrong and blaming anyone but himself.
maybe der fuhrer would like to walk into the high court in the bollicky buff today to protest at the courts intimidation of his beloved pilots.as an aside might grab some of that oh so loved publicity,the egomaniac craves.
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Ignorance is bliss.
No airline has ever gone out of business because it paid its staff too much or treated them too well
United, Delta, Northwest, BA's unfunded 2 billion pound pension deficit? Sound familiar? Do your homework and have a close look here and your view may perhaps change...although I doubt it somehow.
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Leo - Thank you for transporting my son and the rest of his school group safely from Girona the other day. 40 minutes late isn't that bad for an on-time airline.
No thanks to your representatives who refused to even countenance any form of compensation for the virtual destruction of my son's suitcase.
Rude bar stewards. I didn't have an axe to grind with you lot, I now do.
No thanks to your representatives who refused to even countenance any form of compensation for the virtual destruction of my son's suitcase.
Rude bar stewards. I didn't have an axe to grind with you lot, I now do.
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Stampe:
Totally agree with you. What IS TRUE, Leo, is that pilots want to retain a job for the length of their careers. They do not want to change airlines every few years, for better T's & C's, and most certainly do not want to be seeking new jobs because their own has disappeared from under them. It is the pilots, NOT managment, who have a far greater interest in the longterm survival of an airline. Managers have a short-term interest in jacking up the share price, selling their options and then not giving a toss. There will always be another sucker airline somewhere. Just look how many useless airline managers have moved around the market placxe pedalling their incompetance.
Leo: Yes we are talking to you!!
"Unions in general, and pilot unions in particular, are, with tiresomely familiar regularity, the Angels of airline death..."
You have been asked many direct questions in the past; all unanswered! Well, here ia another. Please quote dates, people, places and relevant company names to back up this statement.
Of course leave out: Eastern, TWA, Pan AM, Paramount, Sabre, Dan Air, Swiss Air, Piedmont, Air Canada, Air France (nearly) Iberia (nearly) Lufthansa (nearly) Alitalia (nearly, perhaps yet) Olympic, Sabena, Air Scotland, Air Holland (4 times) Air Littoral, Air Liberte, National Jets Italia, Sterling, etc. etc.
This is only a short list off the top of my head in a few moments. A little more research would extend it to pages, but none of them were pilot caused.
Of course, also leave out all the chapter 11 airlines, both US & other countries, where they were brought to the brink by shoddy short-term management stratergies, and then asked the pilots and other lower employees to sacrifice their salaries in a rescue campaign. The vast majority agreed. Talking of greed, there were many of the top honchos who did not make similar sacrifices, yet it was they who had undone the bolts and caused the wheels to come off.
Share holders have short term gains in mind; pilots have long term futures in mind. History has made it clear from whom the greater threat of survival comes. He who does not learn from history will continue to make the same mistakes in the future. History is the teacher of the future.
Leo: I have just linked to your list of defunct airlines. Please identify which ones were caused by greedy unproductive pilot actions. Until then stop spreading innuendo.
Totally agree with you. What IS TRUE, Leo, is that pilots want to retain a job for the length of their careers. They do not want to change airlines every few years, for better T's & C's, and most certainly do not want to be seeking new jobs because their own has disappeared from under them. It is the pilots, NOT managment, who have a far greater interest in the longterm survival of an airline. Managers have a short-term interest in jacking up the share price, selling their options and then not giving a toss. There will always be another sucker airline somewhere. Just look how many useless airline managers have moved around the market placxe pedalling their incompetance.
Leo: Yes we are talking to you!!
"Unions in general, and pilot unions in particular, are, with tiresomely familiar regularity, the Angels of airline death..."
You have been asked many direct questions in the past; all unanswered! Well, here ia another. Please quote dates, people, places and relevant company names to back up this statement.
Of course leave out: Eastern, TWA, Pan AM, Paramount, Sabre, Dan Air, Swiss Air, Piedmont, Air Canada, Air France (nearly) Iberia (nearly) Lufthansa (nearly) Alitalia (nearly, perhaps yet) Olympic, Sabena, Air Scotland, Air Holland (4 times) Air Littoral, Air Liberte, National Jets Italia, Sterling, etc. etc.
This is only a short list off the top of my head in a few moments. A little more research would extend it to pages, but none of them were pilot caused.
Of course, also leave out all the chapter 11 airlines, both US & other countries, where they were brought to the brink by shoddy short-term management stratergies, and then asked the pilots and other lower employees to sacrifice their salaries in a rescue campaign. The vast majority agreed. Talking of greed, there were many of the top honchos who did not make similar sacrifices, yet it was they who had undone the bolts and caused the wheels to come off.
Share holders have short term gains in mind; pilots have long term futures in mind. History has made it clear from whom the greater threat of survival comes. He who does not learn from history will continue to make the same mistakes in the future. History is the teacher of the future.
Leo: I have just linked to your list of defunct airlines. Please identify which ones were caused by greedy unproductive pilot actions. Until then stop spreading innuendo.