ChewyTheWookie

I completely disagree that a private forum is the way to go. There are far too many people with excellent and educated points to make who would be excluded simply because they form part of a group which is generally considered to be a problem.

I am currently a cabin crew member which would immediatly exclude me from this forum, however I am also halfway towards a comercial license (unfortunately stopped due to failed medical) and am now looking to pursue a career in air traffic. I have always shown a keen interest in the safety issues and things that happen the other side of the door and feel I have been able to make some decent points in debates. Please do not exclude people such as myself simply because a few of the people in our jobs have been a nuisance.

Skytrucker

Dan,

There is plenty of room within Pprune for contributions on any subject from anyone inclined to participate. A specific forum for discussion of CHIRP should be confined to those it directly affects, holders of validated commercial flying licences and ATCOs. Verification by you receiving an e-mail copy of licence with last LPC/OPC.

ChewyTheWookie

CHIRP affects far more people than just pilots and ATCOs. I know you'll probably hate to hear it but cabin crew are on that list too...

Skytrucker

So please feel free to participate in the cabin crew forum. Should you wish to limit the forum to current cabin crew only then please propose this to the moderator. You will probably find the improvement dramatic.

excrewingbod

Indeed, one could argue that a fair proportion of flight crew CHIRPs are because of the interaction with other sectors of the industry.

I suspect the only way to have a sensible discussion in such a forum, is to have each post approved by a moderator before it is published, although the current safety forum appears to plod along without too much nonsense.

There are 'muppets' in all walks of life, regardless if they are 'qualified' or not. PPRUNE appears to have more than its fair share of them. One only has to look at the, now closed, 'BA747 3 engine LAX-LHR thread' to see some of the posts from those purportedly 'qualified' to discuss such matters.........

ChewyTheWookie

You assume I want to just participate in the cabin crew forum.

I don't see why I should be blocked from joining in discussions about issues which will hopefully be relevant one day in my line of work (as I said before I am applying to be an ATCO). I personally do not feel I am a "muppet" as someone so eloquently put. If I make a statement based on my limited knowledge that turns out to be incorrect I am happy to be corrected. I also enjoy the opportunity to ask questions about the issues brought up. The cabin crew forum certainly isn't going to give me any useful info about flying across the Atlantic on 3 engines is it?

Unlike certain people, I never pretend to be qualified. If anyone asks I freely admit that I am a private flyer with 50 hours (and proud of it!).

Hand Solo

And that is the point. You are not a specialist and so unable to contribute to specialist discussions. If you want to learn about a specific issue then there is nothing to stop you asking about it on a regular forum. However as a non-specialist you do not have the necessary technical knowledge or training to contribute a specialist opinion.

ChewyTheWookie

How do you know I don't have the necessary technical knowledge? You simply make assumptions.

Oh that's super!

How about the likes of:

- Retired pilots
- Sim instructors that lost their medical
- Military pilots
- Aviation safety professionals (with licence but not flying professionally or seeking to fly professionally, or without licence) including safety investigators
- Aviation medical examiners

Even though they are not 'airline pilots', they could have very valuable contributions to make (and often/usually equipped with highly specialist knowledge). Excluding them could narrow the scope of input.

lomapaseo

Sorry to post more than once on this interesting thread, but after reading further discussion, I'm inclined to support the idea of referrals by already respected members such as Mods, in lieu of so called government issued licenses.

Hand Solo

Sorry Chewie but we've been down this road before. You are a steward who's studied for a CPL, you have 50 hours flying, you have previously claimed extensive knowledge here and in other forums based entirely on sitting on the flight deck jumpseat and talking to flight crew at work. You do not hold a CPL, you have never completed a type rating course on an airliner, you do not hold an aircraft engineers or an air traffic controllers licence, ergo you do not have specialist technical knowledge in these areas. It is not an assumption, its a fact, and its this sort of inane sidetracking that a specialist forum would prevent.

fyrefli

I like the idea posted way up there ^^^^^^ somewhere about having a Professional Pilots only forum that the rest of us can read but not post to.

There are, I suspect, quite a number of people on PPRuNe who, like myself (qualified paraglider pilot for over a decade, 800 hours - not much but not bad with no engine! - regularly fly cross-country in the UK, need to understand and avoid airspace, regularly fly in Class G with the rest of you etc.) read it avidly and learn an awful lot, whilst refraining from posting unless we actually have something meaningful and distinct to say.

Best of both worlds?

Cheers,

Rich.

ChewyTheWookie

Hand solo, does a BEng in Mechanical Engineering including Aeronautics not qualify me at all?

Hand Solo

Not really, mine doesn't. Low level aeronautical theory is a good building block but the concepts are frankly a bit too abstract and removed from realistic application to be useful. Plus we have plenty of specialist professional engineers, aerodynamicists and test pilots to explain the structural, mechanical and aerodynamical aspects of the discussion, which in any case crop up rarely here. BTW I thought your degree was in Sound Engineering. From Hull.

Mad (Flt) Scientist

You won't have if you want to use licensing as a criteria; as I mentioned above, only those directly on the maintenance side of engineering are licensed. The rest of us are just 'employed'.

Go Smoke

Hi Danny,

I'm just humble GA with 500 hours and I would never presume to post on the professional forums, however I do love to read them.

I'm passionate about aviation and find the pro forums intensely interesting and infomative.

I would still like to be able view the topics and discussions and think perhaps the idea of limited access but wider viewability would be a good balance.

Thanks,

GS

nnc0

Unfortunately I only ever acquired a PPL, long since expired and like Chewie, I find myself on the verge of being silenced.

In my defence though for being included I do however have several degrees in engineering and have worked in aerodynamics, performance, structural design and flt test (flown em as well) as well as other aircraft specialties. I've also developed procedures (SOPs, Supp techniques, Abnormals, QRH etc) for manufacturers and airlines drawing heavily on human factors and CRM. It might be a longshot but with the right odds I'd take the bet that you've probably used some of my stuff.

Hand Solo said "...the concepts are frankly a bit too abstract and removed from realistic application to be useful. Plus we have plenty of specialist professional engineers, aerodynamicists and test pilots to explain the structural, mechanical and aerodynamical aspects of the discussion...."

From my own experience, that exact attitude has led to quite a few embarrassing moments for crew. It's almost like saying "Lets not go back to basics and lets not keep an open mind." Hardly a sound basis for discussing CHIRPs.

Professionally, I'd dismiss any report or send it back if it didn't contain feedback from all concerned.

If my own experience has shown me anything it's that looking at an issue from one perspective alone often stultifies(?) the discussion and leads nowhere with nothing being resolved.

scroggs

Really? Why? There is no proposal to change the rest of Pprune, simply a suggestion that a new, private forum be introduced. That doesn't disenfanchise anyone - there are already several private forums to which you do not have access.

I am strongly of the opinion that this forum, should it go ahead, be just like the other private forums - exclusive to those deemed qualified to contribute. To avoid it being taken out of context by others (such as the Press, and those resentful of any perceived exclusion) it should be wholely private; not readable by anyone not a member. Should any particular topic become of relevance to any organisation outside Pprune, or should expert comment be required from outside the membership, access could be given temporarily as required.

Pprune as it is now will continue unchanged (in this context), and those not part of the new forum need hardly be aware of its presence.

ChewyTheWookie

Erm, no...

You may be confused by the fact that I used to be a sound engineer but my degree was in mechanical engineering.

It seems to me that certain people just want to have their own little private members club so they can feel they are better than everyone else. Forget this silly idea and just carry on as before. If a post is not suitable then the moderator can simply remove it.

cavortingcheetah

What Ho! Scroggs.

The previous posts to yours @17.17Z precisely indicate why your opinion, in my opinion, makes a very great deal of common sense.