If I was the boss of KLM...

[Fofioo]

A very significant factor is missing from these discussions, and that is the role of buzz in all of this.. .. .Ottermans assertion that there are no benefits for KLM mainline pilots in a merger of seniority lists, disregards the potential of buzz. Maybe from the ivory towers of a KLM wide body, buzz appears insignificant, but the low cost sector is the future of airline travel within Europe. The massive orders placed by Ryanair, Easyjet, and Go mean that our competitors will all be operating fleets of over one hundred aircraft within five years. Buzz is performing very well, and we have developed arguably the best product within the low cost sector. Financially we are ahead of all budget predictions The only thing holding us back from matching the growth of our competitors is lack of investment.. .. .Buzz has the potential to grow to be the biggest airline under the KLM umberella. Almost certainly it will undergo massive expansion over the next few years, probably both in the UK and in the Netherlands via Transavia. The career opportunities afforded to junior KLM pilots having access to that growth will be far greater than their losses suffered by a merger with the KLM uk and Transavia seniority lists. However those opportunities can only be open if free movement is allowed from both sides, and everyones seniority is respected in full.

[captain]

flapsforty,. .VNV is not very strong at all. It simply does what KLM tells them to do. It doesn't have a vision on the future, although they would like their members to believe they have (looking at this week's letter to members). Furthermore it is part of a multilateral negotiation with KLM where all other KLM's unions are present. VNV never, ever, got out of that negotiation with anything more than what the other unions accomplished. Exapmple is a 'donation' to KLM of 6 days leave of the normally entitled holiday days per pilot. That is about 12.000 (man) production days in 2002. Supposedly those days will be returned in 2003, but for the moment a huge excess of pilots will exist which will put pressure on contract negotiations in 2002.. .If BA really wants to take over KLM there's nothing VNV will do about it. Or can for that matter. The only thing which does slow down BA's interest in taking over KLM is the fact that KLM stock almost doubled in six month's time.. .SJ

[METO power]

Switch Jock. .. .I totally agree with you. VNV is toothless. Being on good terms with KLM management seems to be the main concern. The way VNV is set up it’s nothing but a conflict. The members are obliged to pay the union dues, however, they have no rights to participate in the decision-making. You cannot even vote on a new contract. The master executive council is negotiating the contract together with the other unions and KLM management. It is then presented to council, which consist of elected members of all airlines represented by VNV. They get to vote on it and nobody else. With other words, Pilots from Martinair, Transavia and so on help to decide if a contract for KLM Pilots is good or not. Again, a regular member has nothing to say about it. A crazy situation.. .. .Last year 1600 KLM pilots (75%) signed a petition to the management to introduce a jumpseat policy which was already worked out and crushed two week before implementation without any reason given. A copy was send to VNV, however it was completely neglected. . .. .So much for a strong union who is representing its members.

[Long Haul]

METO, There are vacancies in the ledenraad for almost every group. If you joined, then you could vote for or against the upcoming contract. (By the way, I totally agree with you, and am in favor of scrapping the LR altogether and having the members vote on all important decisions).. .. .driver,. .Well said. I hope that the VNV invites BALPA to negotiate the procedure beforehand and that they then together present the solution to the management.. .. .F.. .Very interesting point. I, for one, would definitely think long and hard if offered the chance to go to Buzz.. . . . <small>[ 16 March 2002, 13:07: Message edited by: Long Haul ]</small>

[quickturnaround]

FOFIOO, I think you are right, if it is played well there are tremendous benefits for all pilots.. .But perhaps the KLM main line pilots are afraid and weary about seeing the benefits. Especially the less senior pilots in KLM would be happy, since there would be new oportunities in real flying. Endless travel as secound officer is not what they bargained for I suppose....... .Also for Transavia, Buzz & KLM uk drivers there would be great benefits.. .. .I sure hope that VNV does not make a mess of it this time.

[flapsforty]

Switch Jock, I reckon that one's point of view on the VNV depends on one's perspective.. .Not disputing your view per se, you being a member of the VNV know what you are talking about, although you do seem to have misunderstood the function of the "ledenraad".. .As for those 6 days; you are not the only ones giving them up mate, we do too! . .That particular gem was forced through by management cleverly and opportunistically making use of post-9/11 fears among employees. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" /> . .. .Looking at many other aspects of working conditions, work times, salaries, rostering etc, the VNV has without any doubt whatsoever managed time and time again to negotiate a far better deal for it's members than the VNC has ever managed for us.. .So comparing it to my own union, which after all frames my perspective, the VNV is mighty strong.. .. .You look at what might have been, and find the VNV toothless. We are both probably right.. .. .PS: That failed jumpseat deal was a shameful chickening out by envious management IMHO. Still amazed that you lot didn't stand up more for yourselves, especially since as far as i know, your NW colleagues had already implemented the whole thing to include you !. . . . <small>[ 17 March 2002, 15:29: Message edited by: flapsforty ]</small>

[World Traveller]

Press release, Fri 22/3/02:. .. .KLM GROUP RESTRUCTURES TO FOCUS ON THREE KEY PRODUCT/MARKET COMBINATIONS. .. .KLM is restructuring the organization of the Group and its airline affiliates to fully support its strategy for serving the three key segments of the passenger market.. .. .KLM Group will focus on three product/market combinations and align its business to serve these segments:. .. .the global network operator, supported by regional feeder operations at its network hubs;. .. .the charter and scheduled services for the leisure market;. .. .the low-cost operations.. .. .Global network carrier and feeder operations. .. .KLM and its alliance partners maintain a global network operated from their hubs in Europe, the United States, Africa and Asia.. .. .KLM’s regional affiliates KLM cityhopper and KLM uk provide feeder services for the global network from regional European airports to and from the Schiphol hub.. .. .KLM’s global network and feeder operations will be strengthened by bringing KLM uk and KLM cityhopper together with an integrated management team.. .. .The organizations and operations of these two airlines will be more closely coordinated, while their flight operations with cost-effective Fokker 100, Fokker 70, and Fokker 50 equipment will be further optimized.. .. .Leisure operations. .. .Within the KLM Group, Transavia airlines will remain responsible for serving the leisure market. This airline currently operates successful charter and scheduled services to a wide range of vacation destinations in Europe, North Africa, the Mediterranean area and Central Asia.. .. .Transavia will standardize its fleet to one aircraft type, the Boeing 737, to ensure maximum operational flexibility and efficiency.. .. .Low-cost operations to be further developed and coordinated. .. .The KLM Group is currently active in the low-cost segment with two brands, one, buzz, operating from the UK, and the second, BASIQ AIR, operating from the Netherlands. Its experiences with both low-cost operations has led the KLM Group to decide to continue to play an important role in this fast-growing market. To optimize coordination, management of the low-cost product, operation and positioning will be placed in the hands of a single person for the KLM Group, effective April 1, 2002.. .. . . .. .Coordination. .. .The KLM board will maintain overall supervision to ensure that the various product/market combinations within the KLM Group are properly coordinated.. .. .After consultation with the Works Council, the following appointments will take effect on April 1, 2002.. .. .Peter Hartman, board member and chief operating officer - KLM, will take on leadership for the global network operations.. .. .Henny Essenberg, current EVP - Passenger Division, will be appointed his deputy. He will additionally focus on alliances for the KLM Group passenger business.. .. .Paul Gregorowitsch, current SVP - Sales & Distribution, Passenger Division, will become responsible for all commercial activities benefiting these passenger activities, including sales, marketing, distribution, and revenue management.. .. .Elfrieke van Galen, current managing director - KLM cityhopper, will additionally take on management of KLM uk as CEO, to ensure greater coordination between these two regional feeder airlines.. .. .Floris van Pallandt, current CEO - KLM uk, is appointed president & CEO - Transavia airlines. He will also be responsible for managing and positioning the KLM Group’s low-cost product and operations.

[David Hurst]

And here's Transavia expanding the BASIQ AIR concept. Note the last paragraph about calling charter operations BASIQ as well.. .. .TRANSAVIA DOUBLES THE NUMBER OF BASIQ AIR DESTINATIONS. .. .22 March 2002, Schiphol. Effective 1 May, Transavia airlines will expand its scheduled BASIQ AIR services to include Madrid, Bordeaux and Marseilles. Along with Barcelona, Nice and Malaga, this brings the number of BASIQ AIR destinations to six.. .. .Based on experience with the low-fare flight product, the KLM Group wants to play a significant role in the rapidly expanding European low-fare market. Airlines currently operating services to Barcelona, Nice and Malaga are experiencing explosive growth in passenger numbers. This proves that reasonably priced BASIQ AIR flights tie in well with consumer travel behaviour, which is increasingly influenced by price considerations. The earlier customers book and pay for their BASIQ AIR flight, the less they pay. Adding Madrid, Bordeaux and Marseilles to the BASIQ AIR package will facilitate further expansion into the French and Spanish markets.. .. .Consumers on the lookout for reasonably priced fares can now take advantage of daily BASIQ AIR scheduled services to Madrid and Marseilles. With the exception of Thursdays, daily flights will be operated to Bordeaux. Fares to Madrid start at € 49 and to Bordeaux and Marseilles at € 29. From Saturday, 23 March, passengers can make reservations via the Internet (WWW.BASIQAIR.COM), by telephone via the call centres (0900-227 47 24 from the Netherlands, 0821 23 12 14 from France, 902 11 44 78 from Spain) or at their local travel agent.. .. .On commencement of the 2002 summer season, the BASIQ AIR concept will also be offered for close to 20 charter destinations in cooperation with various tour operators.

[Jetlegs]

The usual suspects from KLM management engaged in the Shark Shuffle. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" /> . .. .It's an ill wind...................... .. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

[Dutchie]

What kind of stupid remark is that?? Elfriek is one of the best managers around.. Henny Essenberg the same... .. .Better back it up with some valid arguments i would say.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" />