Ryanair & Air Arran Bomb Threat Diversions to PIK (merged)
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The decision by the captain of this aircraft and the one earlier in the week to keep the passengers on board are ludicrous.
If someone is suggesting that they were kept on board at the behest of the local police chief, they are mistaken. The decision in such matters rest solely with the aircraft commander. He is the one that will bear the brunt if things go wrong. If that were to happen the local police chief would be cleared as the course of action would have only been a suggestion by him. He does not have the authority to override the captain. The commander's authority to make and execute such decisions is backed up by international law.
If someone is suggesting that they were kept on board at the behest of the local police chief, they are mistaken. The decision in such matters rest solely with the aircraft commander. He is the one that will bear the brunt if things go wrong. If that were to happen the local police chief would be cleared as the course of action would have only been a suggestion by him. He does not have the authority to override the captain. The commander's authority to make and execute such decisions is backed up by international law.
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Yes, agree entirely, I only state the info which was passed to the crew. Personally would have gone elsewhere, would love to see the footage from F3-cam on America's wildest police chases. Apparently RYR had to orbit to wait for them to catch up.
The fact of the matter is that as from the moment you announce a bomb threat or a hijack to the authorities then you are no longer really the captain of your aircraft.
You will be told where to go and you will be told where to park on the remote stand at an airfield that you had not really planned.
Whatever you might wish to do as a captain on arrival will have been largely overtaken by the threat assesment team. I think you will find in law that they have now taken over the responsibility for your aircraft and its contents.
You could always decide to disregard their advice and launch yourself out of the DV panel and probably break your leg on the ramp.
Whatever your grandiose ideas of being the perfect captain might be, you will have to listen to the advice being given from outside.
I reiterate that if you choose to disregard this advice and go for your gung- ho attitude and evacuate the aircraft, you could subsequently find yourself in DEEP sh*t. For all you know, the SAS could (and probably will be) outside the aircraft and you could end up with an AK47 round up your arse.
I am not impressed by the statement that folks can step out of a 737 without any problem. An ex-mate found himself in deep sh+t when he fell out of Door L1 from an easyJet 737 at EDI.
You will be told where to go and you will be told where to park on the remote stand at an airfield that you had not really planned.
Whatever you might wish to do as a captain on arrival will have been largely overtaken by the threat assesment team. I think you will find in law that they have now taken over the responsibility for your aircraft and its contents.
You could always decide to disregard their advice and launch yourself out of the DV panel and probably break your leg on the ramp.
Whatever your grandiose ideas of being the perfect captain might be, you will have to listen to the advice being given from outside.
I reiterate that if you choose to disregard this advice and go for your gung- ho attitude and evacuate the aircraft, you could subsequently find yourself in DEEP sh*t. For all you know, the SAS could (and probably will be) outside the aircraft and you could end up with an AK47 round up your arse.
I am not impressed by the statement that folks can step out of a 737 without any problem. An ex-mate found himself in deep sh+t when he fell out of Door L1 from an easyJet 737 at EDI.
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twice in a week.
It may help to know that command of the aircraft passes to the senior policeman present on parking. I don`t think that is sensitive info.The captain would not be in a position to order anything.
As for the delay in disembarking, well think bonfire night and would you get close to a firework that had been lighted and not gone off?
A horrible experience for all involved.
What to do to stop this idiocy ? A scribbled note found on board is the extension of going through security and saying you have a bomb in your bag, but with a degree of anonimity.
Had it been there for days unfound ? possibly not.
Was it from a person onboard that flight ? probably yes.
Everyone on board will suffer but will that deter the next ? People still say there is a bomb in my bag knowing the outcome of that.
A remedy has to be found and quickly.
As for the delay in disembarking, well think bonfire night and would you get close to a firework that had been lighted and not gone off?
A horrible experience for all involved.
What to do to stop this idiocy ? A scribbled note found on board is the extension of going through security and saying you have a bomb in your bag, but with a degree of anonimity.
Had it been there for days unfound ? possibly not.
Was it from a person onboard that flight ? probably yes.
Everyone on board will suffer but will that deter the next ? People still say there is a bomb in my bag knowing the outcome of that.
A remedy has to be found and quickly.
Perhaps all of you gung-ho captains out there would care to go to the Aer Arran bomb scare to Prestwick forum.
There you will read that the moment the captain puts the park brake on the senior police officer present takes over responsibility for the aircraft and its contents.
That has always been my understanding and I still think that an emotive "I want to get out of this" evacuation is still not advisable.
Unlike a lot of you out there, I have been a captain since 1966 and I have a fair idea of what is important and what is not.
There you will read that the moment the captain puts the park brake on the senior police officer present takes over responsibility for the aircraft and its contents.
That has always been my understanding and I still think that an emotive "I want to get out of this" evacuation is still not advisable.
Unlike a lot of you out there, I have been a captain since 1966 and I have a fair idea of what is important and what is not.
JW411
OK, I take your point regarding "the law" I'm sure you are correct, but unless the police are darn sure, no, absolutely cast iron certain, that there isn't a bomb on the aircraft I would suggest that they are the one's being "gung-ho" in ordering all the passengers to remain on the aircraft.
So you would still order an evacuation against all the advice that you would already have received from the security services involved?
I doubt that you would really have the balls to do that.
If you think that life is that simple then why did the FR captain who was actually involved (unlike all of you Monday morning quarterbackers and all of the similarly general promising hysterics out there) not immediately blow the slides and evacute the aeroplane?
The reason that he didn't was that:
1. He listened to advice.
2. He had read all the books and had done the security courses.
3. He did what he was told.
I doubt that you would really have the balls to do that.
If you think that life is that simple then why did the FR captain who was actually involved (unlike all of you Monday morning quarterbackers and all of the similarly general promising hysterics out there) not immediately blow the slides and evacute the aeroplane?
The reason that he didn't was that:
1. He listened to advice.
2. He had read all the books and had done the security courses.
3. He did what he was told.
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The fact of the matter is that as from the moment you announce a bomb threat or a hijack to the authorities then you are no longer really the captain of your aircraft.
It may help to know that command of the aircraft passes to the senior policeman present on parking.
The fact that so many pilots - presumably the majority of posters here at least think they are pilots - are willing to entertain the notion that they loose their responsibilities and authority in such circumstances is very telling indeed. For starters, it seems to provide excellent grounds for taking that authority away. Actually, when you think about it, why should a captain who declares a low fuel state be allowed to be in charge of the aircraft? Would it not be better to hand the matter over to ATC? Actually, when you think about it, do we really need pilots at all?
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Well if I was sitting on the firework that had not gone off I'd get off and run and watch from a safe distance! One day if the authorities carry on in this vain one will go off and the resulting Law suits will go bannanas. I believe all ops manuals (uk) say bomb threat evac/get passengers off soonest. index.
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JW411 on that thread do YOU DO NOT LEARN any such thing. You get an unsubstantiated opinion to that effect. Neither is it true to imply that one
Are you saying as a matter of fact that there was ADVICE? Or INFORMATION?
Who do you think is charged with the responsibility for the passengers? If it is the police when on the ground, why not in the air? When does the responsibility transfer from the captain to the police?
I hope you are not a pilot.
would still order an evacuation against all the advice that you would already have received from the security services involved?
Who do you think is charged with the responsibility for the passengers? If it is the police when on the ground, why not in the air? When does the responsibility transfer from the captain to the police?
I hope you are not a pilot.
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legislation and things
Surely the problem is the idiots enticed from the railways by Stellios and Mol onto aircraft, with the additional dangers entailed, for a bargain fare and zero attempt at control.
Ye Gods, an easy returned to Belfast after a brawl on board yesterday and nobody was charged !
Is this the right message to send ?
Ye Gods, an easy returned to Belfast after a brawl on board yesterday and nobody was charged !
Is this the right message to send ?
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Every person in an aircraft shall obey all lawful commands which the commander of that aircraft may give for the purpose of securing the safety of the aircraft and of persons or property carried therein, or the safety, efficiency or regularity of air navigation.
command of the aircraft passes to the senior policeman present
A person shall not recklessly or negligently act in a manner likely to endanger an aircraft, or any person therein.
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More details emerging tonight through the media on breakingnews.ie
"Passengers on a Luton-to-Galway flight diverted following a mid-air bomb scare finally arrived at their destination today.
The Aer Arann flight was escorted by two RAF Tornado fighters to Ayrshire’s Prestwick airport just before 11pm yesterday after stewards were alerted to the word “bomb” and a picture of an arrow scrawled on a seat table.
Four crew members and 49 passengers had to be evacuated from the plane and were interviewed, searched and photographed by detectives.
No device was found and the passengers and crew were sent to a hotel just before 5am – only to be woken at 10.30am in a fire evacuation.
The plane finally arrived in Galway at about 4pm today.
The scare follows a similar incident on Wednesday when more than 170 passengers and crew on a Paris to Dublin Ryanair flight were diverted to Prestwick after a note warning of a bomb on board was found in an in-flight magazine.
Travellers today condemned the “irresponsible” hoaxer and said there was a feeling of frustration rather than fear on the plane.
Some were unhappy at having to wait on board an hour after landing at Prestwick but praised airline and airport staff.
Taisce Gillespie, a footballer with Barnet FC, was sitting beside the two passengers who found the message.
The 17-year-old, who was heading home to Galway for the week, said: “I thought the reason we landed at Prestwick was because they were prepared for the situation, which they didn’t seem to be at all.
"The longer it went on people started getting frustrated but there wasn’t any panic.”
Mr Gillespie said a “stupid prank” had ruined many people’s Easter weekend, saying some had simply flown back to Luton instead of going on to Ireland.
Energy consultant Jim Bown, 61, who is originally from Lancashire but now lives in Ukraine, was travelling with his family for a relative’s 60th birthday celebrations in Galway this evening.
He said passengers were “well looked after” by air staff but he condemned the “irresponsible” actions of the person who wrote the message.
“Some people might be smiling having seen the news, but it’s just sick,” he said.
“There’s no reason to put people through that kind of situation. It is stressful because you never quite know for certain.”
Passengers said they were given boarding passes at around 3am but were later told the pilots had exceeded their flying time and they could not travel until this afternoon.
Meanwhile, Prestwick chief executive Mark Rodwell praised his staff for their handling of the latest incident.
He said: “In situations like this the airport follows pre-determined procedures, which allow us to work alongside the police and emergency services to ensure the safety and well-being of the people involved, which is always our number one priority.”
"Passengers on a Luton-to-Galway flight diverted following a mid-air bomb scare finally arrived at their destination today.
The Aer Arann flight was escorted by two RAF Tornado fighters to Ayrshire’s Prestwick airport just before 11pm yesterday after stewards were alerted to the word “bomb” and a picture of an arrow scrawled on a seat table.
Four crew members and 49 passengers had to be evacuated from the plane and were interviewed, searched and photographed by detectives.
No device was found and the passengers and crew were sent to a hotel just before 5am – only to be woken at 10.30am in a fire evacuation.
The plane finally arrived in Galway at about 4pm today.
The scare follows a similar incident on Wednesday when more than 170 passengers and crew on a Paris to Dublin Ryanair flight were diverted to Prestwick after a note warning of a bomb on board was found in an in-flight magazine.
Travellers today condemned the “irresponsible” hoaxer and said there was a feeling of frustration rather than fear on the plane.
Some were unhappy at having to wait on board an hour after landing at Prestwick but praised airline and airport staff.
Taisce Gillespie, a footballer with Barnet FC, was sitting beside the two passengers who found the message.
The 17-year-old, who was heading home to Galway for the week, said: “I thought the reason we landed at Prestwick was because they were prepared for the situation, which they didn’t seem to be at all.
"The longer it went on people started getting frustrated but there wasn’t any panic.”
Mr Gillespie said a “stupid prank” had ruined many people’s Easter weekend, saying some had simply flown back to Luton instead of going on to Ireland.
Energy consultant Jim Bown, 61, who is originally from Lancashire but now lives in Ukraine, was travelling with his family for a relative’s 60th birthday celebrations in Galway this evening.
He said passengers were “well looked after” by air staff but he condemned the “irresponsible” actions of the person who wrote the message.
“Some people might be smiling having seen the news, but it’s just sick,” he said.
“There’s no reason to put people through that kind of situation. It is stressful because you never quite know for certain.”
Passengers said they were given boarding passes at around 3am but were later told the pilots had exceeded their flying time and they could not travel until this afternoon.
Meanwhile, Prestwick chief executive Mark Rodwell praised his staff for their handling of the latest incident.
He said: “In situations like this the airport follows pre-determined procedures, which allow us to work alongside the police and emergency services to ensure the safety and well-being of the people involved, which is always our number one priority.”
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the problem here is the lack of communication between defence officials and airlines inregards to eachothers procedures. I know at my airline we have procedures for such situations but as far as i know we have not been given information on the authorites procedures. granted every country has different procedures i assume or maybe under all jar or even icao members they keep to the same critera. then maybe we could brief the passengers more accuratly on what they are likely to encounter on the ground. if someone has been given this information from their please let us know then obviously its accesable
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An aircraft not in the air, ie an ex aircraft, an aircraft deceased, an aircraft without air, would appear to be part of the landscape and, indeed , is legally and quite sensibly regarded as so.
Err, without movement Mr Plod is in charge.
Clear now ?
Seems we`ve reached the stage where airlines should brief the crims about what happens to them next.
Doesn`t bode well does it ?
Err, without movement Mr Plod is in charge.
Clear now ?
Seems we`ve reached the stage where airlines should brief the crims about what happens to them next.
Doesn`t bode well does it ?
Ice Pack:
I can well understand that as a passenger you would get quite excited about a bomb scare.
Now I have just retired after 49 years of professional flying and I have to tell you that bomb scares are pretty low on my "getting frightened scale".
I have been through three of those in my civilian career and all three have turned out to be total bullsh*t.
I also spent 18 years as a transport pilot in the Royal Air Force in places such as Aden (where driving home was the big problem when it came to staying alive) and I have to tell you that I have a pretty good idea of fear.
A bomb scare on an airliner nowadays (and for many years) is a non-event. It is usually the result of a college kid or a Cuban trying to impress his girlfriend or something similar.
There are several hundred bomb scares levelled at UK airlines every year and no one has yet been killed by any one of them.
However, we could just be getting into a new phase of bomb carriers but we do not have to worry about that for the BAA will stop anything and everythng from ever getting on our aeroplanes (including passengers).
I can well understand that as a passenger you would get quite excited about a bomb scare.
Now I have just retired after 49 years of professional flying and I have to tell you that bomb scares are pretty low on my "getting frightened scale".
I have been through three of those in my civilian career and all three have turned out to be total bullsh*t.
I also spent 18 years as a transport pilot in the Royal Air Force in places such as Aden (where driving home was the big problem when it came to staying alive) and I have to tell you that I have a pretty good idea of fear.
A bomb scare on an airliner nowadays (and for many years) is a non-event. It is usually the result of a college kid or a Cuban trying to impress his girlfriend or something similar.
There are several hundred bomb scares levelled at UK airlines every year and no one has yet been killed by any one of them.
However, we could just be getting into a new phase of bomb carriers but we do not have to worry about that for the BAA will stop anything and everythng from ever getting on our aeroplanes (including passengers).
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re Bomb Alerts on TWO Irish Aircraft in the past week. Presumably both aircraft had been on DUB recently - I believe notes were found on board on RETURN flights to Eire.
Has anyone thought it may be the work of some prankster on the ground in DUB who is doing this during servicing?
Has anyone thought it may be the work of some prankster on the ground in DUB who is doing this during servicing?
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I think you'll find, regardless of where authority lies at any particular time, if the Captain does not comply with an ATC instructed diversion or Police instructions when on the ground, the consequences could be very serious.
If I was that Captain, with 2 fighters up my chuff, and the Police / SAS welcoming committee, I'd do exactly what I was told!
Bon Chance, to those who wish to do their own thing and try their luck.
If I was that Captain, with 2 fighters up my chuff, and the Police / SAS welcoming committee, I'd do exactly what I was told!
Bon Chance, to those who wish to do their own thing and try their luck.
stilljustanothernumber
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wotsyors said
It may help to know that command of the aircraft passes to the senior policeman present on parking. I don`t think that is sensitive info.The captain would not be in a position to order anything.
It may help to know that command of the aircraft passes to the senior policeman present on parking.
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what utter pondlife drivel to say the capt is not in a position to order an evac.....go to bed it's past your bedtime.
with two tornados....yes I'll go where they say...they own the the football re the airspace.....but sitting on the terra f and after a bomb threat the capt has the onus and right to make the decision whether to stay or go re an evac....I know what I'd do but that's just humble me.
with two tornados....yes I'll go where they say...they own the the football re the airspace.....but sitting on the terra f and after a bomb threat the capt has the onus and right to make the decision whether to stay or go re an evac....I know what I'd do but that's just humble me.