Another pilot in alcohol realted incident
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I wonder what's more dangerous, a pilot in control of an aircraft with 0.04% blood alcohol level or a fatigued pilot frequently maxing the 100 hrs in 28 days and 900 hrs in 365 days rule micro-sleeping on final approach with 0% alcohol level.
As an Emirates pilot, I regularly fall into the later half of the above but despite all the warning bells no-one seems to care.
Come on you bunch of blood sucking journo's, sink your teeth into this!
I dare you!
As an Emirates pilot, I regularly fall into the later half of the above but despite all the warning bells no-one seems to care.
Come on you bunch of blood sucking journo's, sink your teeth into this!
I dare you!
Originally Posted by Ronnie Honker
K C, You look like an incoholic, your eyes are glazed - in MY opinion, you slur your words like one (an inco-alco-holic).........and did I mention that you look like you walk like one?!
Prove to the authorities (to whom I've reported my suspicions) that you're NONE of the above!
(Then I might feel half safe to fly..... I think I saw you having a glass of red wine with your meal yesterday! We'd prefer you didn't drink in the WEEK preceding your flying!
Be a terrorist - THEY don't drink!)
Prove to the authorities (to whom I've reported my suspicions) that you're NONE of the above!
(Then I might feel half safe to fly..... I think I saw you having a glass of red wine with your meal yesterday! We'd prefer you didn't drink in the WEEK preceding your flying!
Be a terrorist - THEY don't drink!)
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Originally Posted by DBate
Btw. did you all know, that when you eat a strong mint-candy (e.g. a Fishermans Friend) or use mouthwash/spray and take a breathalyzer test thereafter (10 mins), the results will be positive?
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I agree, this is getting ridiculous, once paxs realise they have the power to give pilots grief and delay flights simply by whispering in some security persons ear, It will spiral out of control. I think it should be compulsory to get the paxs name and details, and if it is unfounded, the pilot and the airline should be able to take them to task. The same should apply to security staff.
An annomous whisper from a paxs, who is then allowed to continue on with no accountability for their accusations is ridiculous.
Add to this the securities simple minded buzz of gaining recognition, even on the news for "catching a pilot" and your asking for trouble.
Its so ridiculous been accused because "they think" they smell alcohol on your breath, when they do not even appear intoxicated, yet the CAA, FAA,DCA allow pilots to fly daily fatigued, when it has been proven that fatigued causes the same affect as been under the influence of alcohol.
Look at how many pilots are complaining of fatigue because of airlines rostering practices that has been ignored for years by the authorities. What the hell are these authorities reason for existance if not to remedy this dangerous practice, but mention alcohol on the breath, and they think they have found there reason for existance.
An annomous whisper from a paxs, who is then allowed to continue on with no accountability for their accusations is ridiculous.
Add to this the securities simple minded buzz of gaining recognition, even on the news for "catching a pilot" and your asking for trouble.
Its so ridiculous been accused because "they think" they smell alcohol on your breath, when they do not even appear intoxicated, yet the CAA, FAA,DCA allow pilots to fly daily fatigued, when it has been proven that fatigued causes the same affect as been under the influence of alcohol.
Look at how many pilots are complaining of fatigue because of airlines rostering practices that has been ignored for years by the authorities. What the hell are these authorities reason for existance if not to remedy this dangerous practice, but mention alcohol on the breath, and they think they have found there reason for existance.
Last edited by b777900; 11th Apr 2006 at 10:43.
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Originally Posted by b777900
I agree, this is getting ridiculous, once paxs realise they have the power to give pilots grief and delay flights simply by whispering in some security persons ear, It will spiral out of control. I think it should be compulsory to get the paxs name and details, and if it is unfounded, the pilot and the airline should be able to take them to task. The same should apply to security staff.
An annomous whisper from a paxs, who is then allowed to continue on with no accountability for their accusations is ridiculous.
An annomous whisper from a paxs, who is then allowed to continue on with no accountability for their accusations is ridiculous.
I'm only a PPL and enjoy reading this forum (thought I better state that after the recent postings about the Eirjet incident
), but surely the primary concern here must be safety?On how many occasions each year are pilots stopped and breathalysed following pax tip-offs? How many occasions with stops following security staff suspicions being raised? I don't have the figures, but I'm guessing from reading these pages that it can't be an every day occurrence???
In Britain more than any other country I've lived in, we have potentially fatal inbred characteristic... the "Let's not bother reporting it... someone else will already have done it won't they? Bound to have!" syndrome.
Whether it's a car alarm going off in a car park or, more seriously, someone staggering to their car after a beer or six in the pub... "Leave it Stan, we're not the only one to have seen him. Someone else will already have told someone".
Sound familiar?
Now add to that that Harold and Hilda going on their package hols to Spain think they've seen aircrew necking a shot before going to the sharp end of an aircraft. They're already reticent to tell anyone 'cos after all "Someone else will have already told someone, won't they", but now they know that should they tell someone and it turns out to be innocent/a mistake/not what it appeared, that they will be sued for slander and dragged through the courts for a big defamation pay-out.
Hmmmmmmmmm, let's see... ain't gonna happen is it?
Surely, if one pax or security person fingers one pilot at some point and prevents God knows what from happening, then its worthwhile? Or am I missing something?
I'm sure it's a complete embuggerence to be stopped as aircrew and told you've been "seen drinking/staggering" by someone. In reality though, how long can it take to prove otherwise? Maybe it's the system and what happens when an accusation is made that needs tweaking.
Don't shoot the messenger!
Cheers
Chris
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The moral is DON'T DRINK within 24hrs of duty and not at all during the tour of duty.
Boring I know, but easier than you think, and you won't be giving the moronic jobsworths who appear to be in charge these days any more opportunities than than they already have to make life difficult.
Boring I know, but easier than you think, and you won't be giving the moronic jobsworths who appear to be in charge these days any more opportunities than than they already have to make life difficult.
If you have ketosis, your breath may well smell as if you've been drinking cider. In that case, though, I believe there's a good chance that you're an undiagnosed diabetic, if not worse, so maybe it's a good thing to have it found out. But I suspect the jobsworths wouldn't go that extra stage to check why.
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This is the called the 'Professional' pilots rumour network
- Since when did drinking before flying become good airmanship? or even (boohoo) 'Another Pilot Beatup'
If your breath stinks of booze the next day - you're still drunk ....
- Since when did drinking before flying become good airmanship? or even (boohoo) 'Another Pilot Beatup'
If your breath stinks of booze the next day - you're still drunk ....
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@ Flying Microphone
That may be true DBate, but come the time for the second test, you'd be very, very negative for an alcohol reading. If it was still positive the "Honestly Guv, it was only an extra strong mint" routine may wear a little thin!
Myself I go along with harpics lines:
Original posted by harpic:
The moral is DON'T DRINK within 24hrs of duty and not at all during the tour of duty.
The moral is DON'T DRINK within 24hrs of duty and not at all during the tour of duty.
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Dbate and harpic, my hat is off to you. No alcohol 24 hours before a duty and none when at work! Wow! That would give me about 3 days a month when I could enjoy a (single) beer, looking at my last few rosters. Unless I started drinking with my cereal when I get in from most of my flights. Something I prefer not to do. (Kids and all that!)
I don't consider myself to be a flight risk when I am always able to stop myself before having more than three beers within twelve or more hours of sign on.
Surely moderation is the key here? I can have one beer at the departure gate and be in the same state as the guy who finished his bottle of whiskey twelve hours before. If you want to get plastered, do it on your own time with lots of time to spare (as you get older, you may need more). If you want to have a glass or two of vino with dinner with more than 12 hours to go, then I can't see the harm.
I don't consider myself to be a flight risk when I am always able to stop myself before having more than three beers within twelve or more hours of sign on.
Surely moderation is the key here? I can have one beer at the departure gate and be in the same state as the guy who finished his bottle of whiskey twelve hours before. If you want to get plastered, do it on your own time with lots of time to spare (as you get older, you may need more). If you want to have a glass or two of vino with dinner with more than 12 hours to go, then I can't see the harm.
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Original posted by GreenOnGo
Dbate and harpic, my hat is off to you. No alcohol 24 hours before a duty and none when at work! Wow! That would give me about 3 days a month when I could enjoy a (single) beer, looking at my last few rosters. Unless I started drinking with my cereal when I get in from most of my flights. Something I prefer not to do.
Dbate and harpic, my hat is off to you. No alcohol 24 hours before a duty and none when at work! Wow! That would give me about 3 days a month when I could enjoy a (single) beer, looking at my last few rosters. Unless I started drinking with my cereal when I get in from most of my flights. Something I prefer not to do.
It's not company policy (which is 12h from bottle to throttle), and I do not condemn any pilot who enjoys a glass or two of beer/wine for dinner.
And I also do not think, that those pilots pose a safety hazard (GreenOnGo's last post seemed to imply that I think they are).
I am no babysitter, everyone should know what they're doing when it come to alcohol. The bottomline is:
Drink responsible - we all know the rules, and we all know the risks.
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Nice to see so many drink drive supporters here.
Or is that different?
As said by others, surely no drinks in 24 hrs resolves the issue? If you cannot get by with a drink, then you need a doctor.
Or is that different?
As said by others, surely no drinks in 24 hrs resolves the issue? If you cannot get by with a drink, then you need a doctor.
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>>As an Emirates pilot, I regularly fall into the later half of the above but despite all the warning bells no-one seems to care.<<
Nor should they Warlock 2000, it is no less than your 'problem'.
IF you feel so fatigued, you should thell your company and stand down, not moan about it here on PPRuNe.
Can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen (FD).
Simple as that, old boy.
Nor should they Warlock 2000, it is no less than your 'problem'.
IF you feel so fatigued, you should thell your company and stand down, not moan about it here on PPRuNe.
Can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen (FD).
Simple as that, old boy.
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If you are on the "safe"side,respect the 12hs,have your 3 beers/2glasses of wine.Protect yourself from "witch hunters"Keep a "HALLS" handy in the morning,it will do the trick,even if you have "bad breath"....
oh..and a good over the counter"eye drop"it will keep the "stone throwers"and "witch hunters"away....BOO!
oh..and a good over the counter"eye drop"it will keep the "stone throwers"and "witch hunters"away....BOO!
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DBate
I think you may be the victim of urban myth.
I have breath tested a lot of people. Some of who have just taken mouth wash, been asked about it, as per the proccedure, after telling me, waved thier option to wait 20 mins before the test. They were a big fat 0. Nothing, bugger all. Same goes for mints and pickled onions.
Unless you drink a bottle of the stuff, in which case you will, if it's alcohol based be above the limit anyway, (as the offence is alcohol not liquor), then 5 mins after you take it there is no chance of being over because of factors other than alcohol or possibly diabetes.
As for the silly suggestion, that for reasons of their own, the public will grass on pilots with no good reason, the legislation has been in force for over a year in the UK. It's well known about by security staff at airports, and it hasn't happened.
I think you may be the victim of urban myth.
I have breath tested a lot of people. Some of who have just taken mouth wash, been asked about it, as per the proccedure, after telling me, waved thier option to wait 20 mins before the test. They were a big fat 0. Nothing, bugger all. Same goes for mints and pickled onions.
Unless you drink a bottle of the stuff, in which case you will, if it's alcohol based be above the limit anyway, (as the offence is alcohol not liquor), then 5 mins after you take it there is no chance of being over because of factors other than alcohol or possibly diabetes.
As for the silly suggestion, that for reasons of their own, the public will grass on pilots with no good reason, the legislation has been in force for over a year in the UK. It's well known about by security staff at airports, and it hasn't happened.
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bjcc
If by "grass on pilots" you mean members of the public making allegations about pilots to airport security and/or the police, then that has happened - as reported in previous threads.
You're entitled to your opinion about what constitutes "good reason."
In one instance at Manchester, some police constables saw fit to breath-test both pilots following a complaint about the landing from a passenger who claimed that the pilots must have been drinking. It was discussed at length on this forum at the time.
Opinions will differ about whether that constitutes "good reason" and about whether the constables acted reasonably in requiring both pilots to submit to a breath-test.
FL
As for the silly suggestion, that for reasons of their own, the public will grass on pilots with no good reason, the legislation has been in force for over a year in the UK. It's well known about by security staff at airports, and it hasn't happened.
You're entitled to your opinion about what constitutes "good reason."
In one instance at Manchester, some police constables saw fit to breath-test both pilots following a complaint about the landing from a passenger who claimed that the pilots must have been drinking. It was discussed at length on this forum at the time.
Opinions will differ about whether that constitutes "good reason" and about whether the constables acted reasonably in requiring both pilots to submit to a breath-test.
FL
