Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Saudi B777 Lands on Wrong LHR RWY?

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Saudi B777 Lands on Wrong LHR RWY?

Old 18th Jun 2001, 03:59
  #21 (permalink)  
3Greens
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Innuendo'

you can't go around renaming runways. they are alocated depending on what magnetic track they point to; ie 27R/L.

anyway this runway is only close at night' so if this a/c did land on a closed runway it must have been at night and i don't know of any Saudi flights that get into
LHR after 10pm.
 
Old 18th Jun 2001, 04:19
  #22 (permalink)  
dallas dude
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

3 greens,

You're misunderstanding INNUENDO'S suggestion (fact).

Here at DFW we have five parallel north/south runways.

Obviously, you can't have (say) 18 outside R, 18 inside R, 18C, 18 inside L and 18 outside L so the "west" runways are even numbers and the "east" side runways are odd. All have a magnetic alignment of 174/354 degrees.

Hence, from east to west (facing south) they're numbered 17L, 17C, 17R,
and, 18L, 18R.

From time to time, (nameless)airlines still do land on the wrong runways but it's usually when they've mistaken 17R for 17C.

Cheers,dd
 
Old 19th Jun 2001, 12:20
  #23 (permalink)  
Tintin
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

You guys should try CDG 26 L&R, 27L&R very confusing so I don't think it will make a differance because, in IMC condition or poor visibility and windy condition the only way to know if your going on the good RWY it's our ILS.
;-)
 
Old 19th Jun 2001, 21:50
  #24 (permalink)  
innuendo
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Hello 3 Greens,
Runways have usualy been designated on their magnetic headings however I don't understand why they should be bound to the "degree" if a different number would reduce confusion be it on an ATIS or the line select key on a MCDU/FMS.
Paris CDG on my ILS charts shows all four runways 088/268 degrees so I think it makes sense to get some difference between them.
When they were a two runway terminal they were designated 08/26 and 09/27. I suppose that with the added extra parallels they had to use the left and right designators.
Incidentaly, I raised this point through my airline with regard to CYYZ after Transport Canada raised a bulletin about a significant number of right/left errors. Their response was "That's all very well but what are you going to do when a third runway is built?"
I dare say that IS a point but for the many terminals such as LHR why not give runways an individual identity?
 
Old 19th Jun 2001, 22:17
  #25 (permalink)  
innuendo
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

My apologies for possibly leaving the impression that it was my airline that objected to the point on the basis of a third parallel. It was Transport Canada that raised that objection. Avoiding the issue IMHO.
 
Old 20th Jun 2001, 01:02
  #26 (permalink)  
sweeper
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Cool

pigboat
you must be as old as me...
 
Old 20th Jun 2001, 02:42
  #27 (permalink)  
In the slot
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Question

Surely the overriding questions in apportioning fault or a mistake in all this are.....
1/ Which runway was the aircraft CLEARED to land on?
2/ Which ILS was the aircraft CLEARED to intercept and was it correctly selected, tuned and identified in the FMC?

Reliable answers to those questions should speak volumes!!

regards
 
Old 20th Jun 2001, 03:56
  #28 (permalink)  
Roadtrip
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Must be some sort of defect with the 777 fleet.
 
Old 20th Jun 2001, 08:58
  #29 (permalink)  
Ignition Override
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Cool

Don't forgot Birmingham (BHM) Alabama-runway 5/23 was renamed 6/24, or vice versa! Atlanta, GA has 26, 27, 8, and 9. The authorities can rename anything that they want-it just causes new Jepp charts to be updated by thousands of pilots!

Maybe they fly Navy P-3s over at times in order to measure runway magnetic changes with the MAD boom ("the stinger"): the magnetic anomaly detector. Why not? The cold war is over...off topic, but therefore maybe we can bring some P-3s out of storage, and convert them back to Electras in order to fly auto parts to Detroit (KYIP), or exorbitantly-priced Airbus replacement parts, both overly thin metal and plastic, to the US.
 
Old 20th Jun 2001, 13:55
  #30 (permalink)  
Haulin' Trash
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

3Greens - depends what you call night time, but some Saudi flights arrive VERY early morning - before the closed runway had re opened??
 
Old 21st Jun 2001, 01:25
  #31 (permalink)  
tired
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

In the slot - spot on, about the only sensible comment on the whole thread!
 
Old 21st Jun 2001, 04:14
  #32 (permalink)  
Just another number
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK
Age: 76
Posts: 1,077
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Lightbulb

The 777 landed on the runway that he had been cleared to land on by ATC. There was a problem with the communication between the BAA and ATC over whether the runway had been checked and cleared for use. The 'checker' vehicle was well beyond the normal turnoff point of a 777.

Airclues
Captain Airclues is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2001, 04:34
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Hampshire UK
Age: 70
Posts: 557
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Post

Thank you Airclues, you have correctly stated the facts. I have watched this thread with interest, with all its speculation, theories, prejudices, wrong assumptions and misplaced criticism. Very educational.
ATCO Two is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2001, 13:27
  #34 (permalink)  
Underdog
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Cool

Atco Two et al,

Don't let the childish remarks by some of our contibutors spoil your impression of us. I think the reason that people are making silly comments is that they know that this was really a 'non-event' in the big scheme of things.

Don't know what the weather was like, but, if 'checker' had been nearer to them they may well have spotted him and G/A'd. Just sounds like a simple cockup - OK we don't really want many of those but - 'Sh!t happens'

I find it remarkable that people can get their knickers in a twist over this - yet elsewhere in the world far more dangerous practices continue on a daily basis. How about being cleared to land whilst still no. 5 in traffic, most of whom you can't see and still not visual with the field? To my mind these daily events are far more dangerous than anything I've ever encountered at LHR.

You guys at LHR do a sterling job. I think everyone with worldwide experience would agree that you are the best in the world - along with the rest of the UK. The odd silly comment from the forum is just that - silly - I'm sure that anyone that has experienced your controlling is only jesting and shouldn't be taken too seriously.

Regards,

Underdog

 
Old 21st Jun 2001, 14:49
  #35 (permalink)  
elandel
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Thank you underdog. Like ATCO 2 I was champing at the bit as well. This incident is being investigated of course so we all have to be a little careful. The facts will come out (probably when you've all forgotten about it!)
 
Old 21st Jun 2001, 17:23
  #36 (permalink)  
411A
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Underdog--
LHR controllers,... "best in the world along with the rest of the UK..." you say? Well, I have flown worldwide and can positivly say that the LHR conrtollers are not the best, quite good yes, but certainly not the best.
Other locations come to mind that handle a mix of general aviation and aircarrier aircraft, and are more flexable.

[This message has been edited by 411A (edited 21 June 2001).]
 
Old 21st Jun 2001, 22:58
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Hampshire UK
Age: 70
Posts: 557
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Post

I actually don't think that Heathrow controllers are the best in the world either, but trust 411A to come up with yet another negative comment.
ATCO Two is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2001, 16:28
  #38 (permalink)  
divingduck
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Question

411A.....

OK then, I just have to know...where IYHO is the best ATC found??

------------------
turn the plane! turn the plane!
 
Old 22nd Jun 2001, 17:27
  #39 (permalink)  
Stratocaster
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

We'll never know where's the best ATC because it's just a highly subjective question... Everybody has a different answer.

There are a lot of very good ATC, LHR is just one of them.
 
Old 22nd Jun 2001, 18:18
  #40 (permalink)  
411A
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Divingduck--
Very subjective indeed but, IMHO (since you asked),
Europe: AMS
USA: LAX
Asia: HKG
S.America, there ain't any, it's all bad. Ditto Africa, except in South Africa.
Australia: SYD
In the LAX area for example, you have the highest concentration of general aviation aircraft in the world combined with five major aircarrier airports, and it works very well, everyday.
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.