Saudi B777 Lands on Wrong LHR RWY?
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Innuendo'
you can't go around renaming runways. they are alocated depending on what magnetic track they point to; ie 27R/L.
anyway this runway is only close at night' so if this a/c did land on a closed runway it must have been at night and i don't know of any Saudi flights that get into
LHR after 10pm.
you can't go around renaming runways. they are alocated depending on what magnetic track they point to; ie 27R/L.
anyway this runway is only close at night' so if this a/c did land on a closed runway it must have been at night and i don't know of any Saudi flights that get into
LHR after 10pm.
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3 greens,
You're misunderstanding INNUENDO'S suggestion (fact).
Here at DFW we have five parallel north/south runways.
Obviously, you can't have (say) 18 outside R, 18 inside R, 18C, 18 inside L and 18 outside L so the "west" runways are even numbers and the "east" side runways are odd. All have a magnetic alignment of 174/354 degrees.
Hence, from east to west (facing south) they're numbered 17L, 17C, 17R,
and, 18L, 18R.
From time to time, (nameless)airlines still do land on the wrong runways but it's usually when they've mistaken 17R for 17C.
Cheers,dd
You're misunderstanding INNUENDO'S suggestion (fact).
Here at DFW we have five parallel north/south runways.
Obviously, you can't have (say) 18 outside R, 18 inside R, 18C, 18 inside L and 18 outside L so the "west" runways are even numbers and the "east" side runways are odd. All have a magnetic alignment of 174/354 degrees.
Hence, from east to west (facing south) they're numbered 17L, 17C, 17R,
and, 18L, 18R.
From time to time, (nameless)airlines still do land on the wrong runways but it's usually when they've mistaken 17R for 17C.
Cheers,dd
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Hello 3 Greens,
Runways have usualy been designated on their magnetic headings however I don't understand why they should be bound to the "degree" if a different number would reduce confusion be it on an ATIS or the line select key on a MCDU/FMS.
Paris CDG on my ILS charts shows all four runways 088/268 degrees so I think it makes sense to get some difference between them.
When they were a two runway terminal they were designated 08/26 and 09/27. I suppose that with the added extra parallels they had to use the left and right designators.
Incidentaly, I raised this point through my airline with regard to CYYZ after Transport Canada raised a bulletin about a significant number of right/left errors. Their response was "That's all very well but what are you going to do when a third runway is built?"
I dare say that IS a point but for the many terminals such as LHR why not give runways an individual identity?
Runways have usualy been designated on their magnetic headings however I don't understand why they should be bound to the "degree" if a different number would reduce confusion be it on an ATIS or the line select key on a MCDU/FMS.
Paris CDG on my ILS charts shows all four runways 088/268 degrees so I think it makes sense to get some difference between them.
When they were a two runway terminal they were designated 08/26 and 09/27. I suppose that with the added extra parallels they had to use the left and right designators.
Incidentaly, I raised this point through my airline with regard to CYYZ after Transport Canada raised a bulletin about a significant number of right/left errors. Their response was "That's all very well but what are you going to do when a third runway is built?"
I dare say that IS a point but for the many terminals such as LHR why not give runways an individual identity?
Guest
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Surely the overriding questions in apportioning fault or a mistake in all this are.....
1/ Which runway was the aircraft CLEARED to land on?
2/ Which ILS was the aircraft CLEARED to intercept and was it correctly selected, tuned and identified in the FMC?
Reliable answers to those questions should speak volumes!!
regards
1/ Which runway was the aircraft CLEARED to land on?
2/ Which ILS was the aircraft CLEARED to intercept and was it correctly selected, tuned and identified in the FMC?
Reliable answers to those questions should speak volumes!!
regards
Guest
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Don't forgot Birmingham (BHM) Alabama-runway 5/23 was renamed 6/24, or vice versa! Atlanta, GA has 26, 27, 8, and 9. The authorities can rename anything that they want-it just causes new Jepp charts to be updated by thousands of pilots!
Maybe they fly Navy P-3s over at times in order to measure runway magnetic changes with the MAD boom ("the stinger"): the magnetic anomaly detector. Why not? The cold war is over...off topic, but therefore maybe we can bring some P-3s out of storage, and convert them back to Electras in order to fly auto parts to Detroit (KYIP), or exorbitantly-priced Airbus replacement parts, both overly thin metal and plastic, to the US.
Maybe they fly Navy P-3s over at times in order to measure runway magnetic changes with the MAD boom ("the stinger"): the magnetic anomaly detector. Why not? The cold war is over...off topic, but therefore maybe we can bring some P-3s out of storage, and convert them back to Electras in order to fly auto parts to Detroit (KYIP), or exorbitantly-priced Airbus replacement parts, both overly thin metal and plastic, to the US.
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The 777 landed on the runway that he had been cleared to land on by ATC. There was a problem with the communication between the BAA and ATC over whether the runway had been checked and cleared for use. The 'checker' vehicle was well beyond the normal turnoff point of a 777.
Airclues
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Thank you Airclues, you have correctly stated the facts. I have watched this thread with interest, with all its speculation, theories, prejudices, wrong assumptions and misplaced criticism. Very educational.
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Atco Two et al,
Don't let the childish remarks by some of our contibutors spoil your impression of us. I think the reason that people are making silly comments is that they know that this was really a 'non-event' in the big scheme of things.
Don't know what the weather was like, but, if 'checker' had been nearer to them they may well have spotted him and G/A'd. Just sounds like a simple cockup - OK we don't really want many of those but - 'Sh!t happens'
I find it remarkable that people can get their knickers in a twist over this - yet elsewhere in the world far more dangerous practices continue on a daily basis. How about being cleared to land whilst still no. 5 in traffic, most of whom you can't see and still not visual with the field? To my mind these daily events are far more dangerous than anything I've ever encountered at LHR.
You guys at LHR do a sterling job. I think everyone with worldwide experience would agree that you are the best in the world - along with the rest of the UK. The odd silly comment from the forum is just that - silly - I'm sure that anyone that has experienced your controlling is only jesting and shouldn't be taken too seriously.
Regards,
Underdog
Don't let the childish remarks by some of our contibutors spoil your impression of us. I think the reason that people are making silly comments is that they know that this was really a 'non-event' in the big scheme of things.
Don't know what the weather was like, but, if 'checker' had been nearer to them they may well have spotted him and G/A'd. Just sounds like a simple cockup - OK we don't really want many of those but - 'Sh!t happens'
I find it remarkable that people can get their knickers in a twist over this - yet elsewhere in the world far more dangerous practices continue on a daily basis. How about being cleared to land whilst still no. 5 in traffic, most of whom you can't see and still not visual with the field? To my mind these daily events are far more dangerous than anything I've ever encountered at LHR.
You guys at LHR do a sterling job. I think everyone with worldwide experience would agree that you are the best in the world - along with the rest of the UK. The odd silly comment from the forum is just that - silly - I'm sure that anyone that has experienced your controlling is only jesting and shouldn't be taken too seriously.
Regards,
UnderdogGuest
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Underdog--
LHR controllers,... "best in the world along with the rest of the UK..." you say? Well, I have flown worldwide and can positivly say that the LHR conrtollers are not the best, quite good yes, but certainly not the best.
Other locations come to mind that handle a mix of general aviation and aircarrier aircraft, and are more flexable.
[This message has been edited by 411A (edited 21 June 2001).]
LHR controllers,... "best in the world along with the rest of the UK..." you say? Well, I have flown worldwide and can positivly say that the LHR conrtollers are not the best, quite good yes, but certainly not the best.
Other locations come to mind that handle a mix of general aviation and aircarrier aircraft, and are more flexable.
[This message has been edited by 411A (edited 21 June 2001).]
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Divingduck--
Very subjective indeed but, IMHO (since you asked),
Europe: AMS
USA: LAX
Asia: HKG
S.America, there ain't any, it's all bad. Ditto Africa, except in South Africa.
Australia: SYD
In the LAX area for example, you have the highest concentration of general aviation aircraft in the world combined with five major aircarrier airports, and it works very well, everyday.
Very subjective indeed but, IMHO (since you asked),
Europe: AMS
USA: LAX
Asia: HKG
S.America, there ain't any, it's all bad. Ditto Africa, except in South Africa.
Australia: SYD
In the LAX area for example, you have the highest concentration of general aviation aircraft in the world combined with five major aircarrier airports, and it works very well, everyday.