SEXUAL HARASSMENT, Captain Inaudible & First Officer X
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: united kingdom
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SEXUAL HARASSMENT, Captain Inaudible & First Officer X
Captain Inaudible, First Officer X & Sexual Harassment. .. .This posting gives the other side of a recent posting to this forum. . .. .Its quite amazing how many of you just blindly accept the word of one person without stopping to think there might be another side to this story, maybe even first officer X's story for instance? . .. .When you consider that pilots today are supposed to be trained in Human Factors it really makes you wonder if 'Animal Factors' would be more appropriate.. .. .If ever one needed proof of why BALPA members make BALPA ineffective and why some pilots make bad 'man' managers, you only need to read some of the previous posts regarding this thread.. .. .Recently our profession was put on a social par with police officers and again reading through some of the inane, gutter dribble on previous posts, I now understand why.. . . .Consider this;. .. .First of all this particular captain is a magistrate and has recently completed a degree in criminal justice (partly during the period of time when he was off sick with stress, gosh, how did he manage to do all that hard work when suffering from so much stress!). .. .As this captain is well versed in the law, more so than the average pilot, and seemingly so very, very, concerned about this alleged incident, (alleged is a word some of you should become more familiar with) ask yourselves why he did not pursue this through the appropriate channels, E.G. the courts, with a solicitor? . .. .Is this type of post to a public forum really the way a professional person of any calibre would handle what is a personal matter between himself and the first officer concerned?. .. .Perhaps this is just a vindictive, spiteful action with no substance, by a man who hadn't got the balls to do anything about it while working. Perhaps this is the action of a sad individual who waits till the safety of retirement to makes snide public remarks aimed at destroying someone just starting out on her career. Not one of you has mentioned the fact that this captain has chosen not only to castigate this first officer in public but also reveal private information in regard to her training record. The fact that some of you have even encouraged this discussion indicates much more about your own personal failings than ever could have been said about this first officer.. .. .Having known this particular captain for many years, I can assure you, I and many others on our fleet, know the answer's to the above!. .. .Before making this post, I individually asked seven senior female cabin crew members this question.. .. ."Can you name one captain who repeatably stares at your breasts while you are in his company". Without hesitation they all individually named this particular captain and named him alone. Perhaps he was checking to see if they were wearing full harnesses! . .The above, and please all of you be very clear about this, is common knowledge on our fleet.. .. .I have flown with the first officer in question on many occasions and I find her standard of flying perfectible acceptable and up to company standard, including her ability to land the aircraft. As a professional pilot that's all I am interested in, I don't care who she has pictures of on her clipboard or if she complains about unpaid expenses, (Fully Justified) I mean come on,. .. .Captain Inaudible's remarks are defamatory to the training department, training captains and the company itself. I think we all know who the company is by now, thanks to the captain who felt it necessary to mention that the FO cried on stand after a bad landing. To that captain I would say, "You have that effect on many pilots, even before landing and I hope your flying career is never judged on the standard of one landing".. .. .By the way, the first officer concerned does know about all these postings. On arriving back at the crew room a copy of Captain Inaudible's disgusting snide post was on the wall. I have sent this down to First Officer X with the compliments of Captain Slimeball, who pinned it on the wall. Sorry to spoil your fun lads but the good news for you is that the B.B.C. have recently announced that 'Andy Pandy' is coming back to our television screens!. .. .I have complete confidence in our training department and in all our trainers, especially now that Captain Inaudible has left. As we all know, anyone who isn't up to standard is removed from flying, it's happened in this company before but its not happened to this first officer and it won't happen, on this fleet. . . . .First Officer X is a young, girlie girl, in common with many people of her age, her interpersonal skills are not the same as someone old enough to be her father. I understand she speaks out when it would be wiser to remain silent. I understand she complains when it would be wiser to endure. These are not sub human failings unique to her. As in any airline, we have some very intelligent people and we have some people who make you want to re-examine the history of human evolution. As professional airline pilots involved in multi crew operations we need to be able to adopt our tolerances and prejudices to accept a wide variety of personalities. . .. .In my experience the captain concerned was unable to remain unbiased when dealing with people he took an obvious dislike to. He also singled out certain people, whom he alone, decided were not up to standard. His standards and his methods of applying them were noticeably not in line with other training captains and as such he was never taken that seriously within the training department. He was one of those unfortunate characters who laboured in the belief that 'his' rule book was a bible and we all know the connection with fools and inflexibility, don't we?. .Within our training department he was unique in this behaviour. Instead of providing guidance and encouragement for those on the edge, his intimidatory, unhelpful attitude would reduce their moral and ability even further. In fact I would use the term, 'a bullyboy' to describe his behaviour towards some people but he was clever enough to only treat certain individuals in this way.. .. .Within the company he was known as 'Captain Inaudible'. His persistent mumbling and inaudible speech was the talk of the fleet. You would think that one of the most important qualities for a training captain would be the ability to be able to speak in such a manner that other people could actually hear what was being said.. .In my flying career, Captain Inaudible is the only pilot I have ever had cause to complain about. I told the fleet manager that I thought he was unsuitable to be a training captain and I was told "not much we can do about it, we inherited him from the XXX fleet!". .. .With regard to Captain Inaudible's comments about our ex-fleet manager;. .Again the defamatory remark about whether or not our fleet manager was effective is not a matter for comment here. I can however tell you all, that our ex-fleet manager was possibly one of the nicest, helpful people you could wish to meet. I have to say that being a genuinely nice person is not the description that springs to mind when describing Captain Inaudible.. .. .I am afraid 'Captain Inaudible' has had an overdue retirement present he brought upon himself.. .. .I do however wish him a happy retirement and hope he channels his vindictiveness into the most suitable of new careers he has found for himself. However, I cannot help thinking that the way he has conducted himself in this forum demonstrates his unsuitability, even for being a magistrate.. .. .P.S. When I discussed these postings with F.O. X her comments were, "Rise above it". I suggest those of you who can, do so!. .. .Judge a man not on how he treats his friends but how he treats his enemies
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What an astonishing rant!! Pity they don't hand out Oscars.... .. .I dare to suggest that a "girlie girl" who lacks maturity (your own description) probably should be nowhere near the controls of a passenger carrying aircraft in the first place.. .. .By the way I know nothing of any of the characters involved.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Grounded
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am probably putting my head on the chopping block here. However after being part of a team in a sexual harassment case. Much of the problem can be sorted out immediately by the line manager and the next superior. From the original posts and from the above explenation this doesnt seem to have happened.. .This sounds like a real cat fight about to explode. Do you all really want to air your dirty washing in public? Reminds me of a Miss N Cambell.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Operated with a female F/O some years ago, and on the taxiway while swinging the flight controls, she had to move the seat way back...and would always mention..."damn things get in the way all the time". Sure got the young F/E's attention, thats for sure.. .Was a good pilot, easily trained, and for a change, would actually listen to others, something her male counterparts had a hard time doing.. . . . <small>[ 28 March 2002, 15:06: Message edited by: 411A ]</small>
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Twosides:. .. .You were doing O.K. until you got to the "Girly Girl" thing.. and that did it for me.. .. .Just blew your credibility all to hell.. . . .. ..................... . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />
Join Date: May 2000
Location: US
Posts: 896
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Twosides, thank you for adding a balance to the previous one-sided discussion regarding alleged sexual harassment in cockpit.. .. .Yes, there are two sides to everything, and up to now, only one side was presented. . .. .I agree, hopefully this topic will be aired in private in the future.
Glasgow's Gallus Gigolo .... PPRuNeing is like making love to a beautiful woman ... I take hours.
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: UK
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why shouldn't a "girly girl" fly? I knew what twosides meant by that character description, I've flown with a few who met it, and it didn't have any bearing on their ability one way or the other.. .And incidentally, having a brief cry after a bad landing need not be anything more than a way of relieving tension- personally I prefer to swear, if I cried after every bad landing I'd be at risk of dehydration. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />
Moderator
Join Date: Feb 1998
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<a href="http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=018058;p=1" target="_blank">http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=018058;p=1</a>. .. .There you go Bins, think that's the one being referred to here.
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: London
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've read the original thread now - and I find it disgusting that.... .....so many people can accuse this girl merely on one man's say so.. .If all he said was true, you have to wonder why "management" took no action against the FO. . .. .Perhaps they didn't believe him.. .. .Perhaps she is actually the innocent party.. .. .As for those who have made veiled threats about her, and "withdrawing flying from her" - i think you are doing ehr a favour by not subjecting her to your bigotry.. .. .I know nobody involved in this thread, it even took me a while to work out the company
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: NY-USA
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have read both threads and must say, I am not buying your side... Granted I do not know either of the two involved but I did see posts of support for MP AND his abilities. . .. .I might have missed it, but I saw zero replies from a pilot that has flown with the girl supporting her. . .. .I did see a post from another pilot with specific errors this pilot has made, and I see nothing wrong with MP mentioning that he believed the pilot needed more training. Needing more training is not bad, not admitting that you do, is !. .. .Do not get me wrong, it has nothing to do with whether she is a female pilot or whether she cries after a bad landing. As others already have said, I am sure some of the best pilots are females. Also relieving stress is more than acceptable, in any way you want to relieve it (ok do not go out and shoot people), and everyone makes minor mistakes. . .. .But everyone needs to learn from mistakes and pilots do not have the luxury of major mistakes. Getting away from your responsibilities by crying, which was what was alleged, by more than one, is bad.. .. .Concerning if the initial thread got too personal or not, don't know really. Granted if I was MP I might have changed the dates around and given less information concerning the incident, but again I do not think that it was him than gave every bit of information but rather it was slowly glued together. . .. .I also do not think anyone really gives a d**n about partially naked pics on clipboards other than a meter of maturity, but as we all know, pilots have their quirks.. .. .On that note, what would you say if MP had photos of girls with bikinis on his clipboard ? . .. .Might change my mind if you can produce more supporters for the girl and her abilities, but right now, you haven't sold me on MP being the particularly grumpy breast-drooling captain just not liking the FO.. .. .Just my 2 cents...
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think we need a new forum as this certainly doesn't fall into the 'Rumours&News' category. How about a 'Libelous Slander' or a 'Nobody's Really Interested' section?. .. .For what it's worth I think MP's post was disgusting. If someone has a personal grievance with a colleague then take it up with someone in the company. To air his dirty washing on a public forum shows a complete lack of professionalism.. . . . <small>[ 29 March 2002, 10:02: Message edited by: what_the_hell_was_that? ]</small>
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Surrey
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I rekon its an airline that has offered full sponsorship in the past, but thats only my opinion. Must be easy to work out, after all heard that all male Captains must now wear Mark 2 Foggles. These incorporate opaque frosting at the bottom to stop your Captain from looking at your breasts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />