Security checks for crews are getting to the riduculous!
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Security checks for crews are getting to the riduculous!
From the Forums page of ********** there is a thread running, which in part states,
"......more and more airports are now insisting that ALL operating crew pass through the same security screening procedure as passengers - often within full view of passengers.
And THAT, imo, is the very REASON for these checks.
It has absolutely ZILCH to do with security, because if it did, then EVERYONE who had airside access would be made to pass through the same procedure EVERY TIME - the lame's....."
Agreed
"......more and more airports are now insisting that ALL operating crew pass through the same security screening procedure as passengers - often within full view of passengers.
And THAT, imo, is the very REASON for these checks.
It has absolutely ZILCH to do with security, because if it did, then EVERYONE who had airside access would be made to pass through the same procedure EVERY TIME - the lame's....."
Agreed
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Re: Security checks for crews are getting to the riduculous!
Your quote either illustrates your point or contradicts it.
Perhaps the same rule should apply to all airside access, regardless of "apparent" status or lack of it. That, to me, would be the right thing.
Perhaps the same rule should apply to all airside access, regardless of "apparent" status or lack of it. That, to me, would be the right thing.
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Re: Security checks for crews are getting to the riduculous!
Maybe if security was consistent we wouldn't have such problems with it. How on one day can I set the scanners off at one position, but not another?
e28 driver
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Re: Security checks for crews are getting to the riduculous!
reminds me of a rather amusing situation which occurred last summer. I'd been camping some weeks before and mistakenly left some 'kitchen cutlery' at my cousins place on our way home. Some weeks later I swung by on the way home and collected the 'utensils', stowing them in the side pocket of my backpack - which I also use for nightstops when I'm rostered for them.
So the next time I actually did a nightstop I turned up at security (which is a pax screening station that crew are allowed to use) completely unaware of what I was carrying. The gasp of the xray machine operator was audible to the assembled pax as was his somewhat excited tone when summoning his colleagues. The entertaining part (my heart having already missed several beats) was his supervisor trying to shut him up and hussle me away in the direction of my plane, still in possession of a couple of knives which were somewhat longer than DfT rules would allow...
So the next time I actually did a nightstop I turned up at security (which is a pax screening station that crew are allowed to use) completely unaware of what I was carrying. The gasp of the xray machine operator was audible to the assembled pax as was his somewhat excited tone when summoning his colleagues. The entertaining part (my heart having already missed several beats) was his supervisor trying to shut him up and hussle me away in the direction of my plane, still in possession of a couple of knives which were somewhat longer than DfT rules would allow...
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Re: Security checks for crews are getting to the riduculous!
because if it did, then EVERYONE who had airside access would be made to pass through the same procedure EVERY TIME - the lame's....."
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Re: Security checks for crews are getting to the riduculous!
The bottom line is that x-raying our flightbags and putting us through metal detectors has NOTHING to do with real security. It never has!
I call you back
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Re: Security checks for crews are getting to the riduculous!
It is a charade we must all follow. You are being checked to see if you are carrying weapons which could be used to forceably gain access to the cockpit, which is where you are going anyway.
However we should be willing to set a good example to pax who hardly enjoy the experience either but if they see us quitely accepting it then they usually do the same.
However we should be willing to set a good example to pax who hardly enjoy the experience either but if they see us quitely accepting it then they usually do the same.
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Re: Security checks for crews are getting to the riduculous!
'It's now a fact of life, learn to live with it.'
It's a fact of life 'cos we, pilots, cabincrew and engineers worldwide have meekly allowed it to be.
It's a fact of life 'cos we, pilots, cabincrew and engineers worldwide have meekly allowed it to be.
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Re: Security checks for crews are getting to the riduculous!
You nasty pilots might give your tool to another nasty person airside to takeover a goody plane. Then go to your own cockpit without the contraband. Simple innit.
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Re: Security checks for crews are getting to the riduculous!
I got stopped just prior to Christmas at Pisa. Item of concern? First aid kit with scissors (round nose type) & tweezers.
"You may be able to gain access to the cockpit with those"!
I replied that I actually sat in the cockpit, and that about two feet to my right, whilst seated, was a blxxdy two foot long axe!
I had to hand the first aid kit to the captain for safe keeping.
Once through the x-ray process, and in full view of the security staff, he kindly handed the kit back to me and I placed it back in my nav bag and we all walked off together.
"You may be able to gain access to the cockpit with those"!
I replied that I actually sat in the cockpit, and that about two feet to my right, whilst seated, was a blxxdy two foot long axe!
I had to hand the first aid kit to the captain for safe keeping.
Once through the x-ray process, and in full view of the security staff, he kindly handed the kit back to me and I placed it back in my nav bag and we all walked off together.
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Re: Security checks for crews are getting to the riduculous!
We were once stopped at the Security check because in the opinion of a Security Agent the Maglite of the F/O was to be considered a potentially dangerous tool (to gain access to the F/D, yeah 
)
The F/O didn't bat an eyelid and told calmly the Security agent to go ahead, but that he was going to cite the incident to explain why the flight didn't take place since he was not able to perform the external check.
They handed the Maglite back to him without a word
)The F/O didn't bat an eyelid and told calmly the Security agent to go ahead, but that he was going to cite the incident to explain why the flight didn't take place since he was not able to perform the external check.
They handed the Maglite back to him without a word
Re: Security checks for crews are getting to the riduculous!
Whilst I am sure that 99.9% of flight deck crew are completely honest (excepting their submitted expense claim forms ) itseems fairly clear that if Johnny Terrorist realises that the only people who don't get security cleared on an a/c are crew, they will think about using this loophole to their advantage. Money wasn't a problem in getting the 9/11 operation into fruition.
I feel irritated every time this topic comes up and pilots trot out the 'we are above reproach because we are pilots' speel. You are humans, though some might have trouble remembering that, and that means that there will inevitably be bad 'uns of varying degrees amongst you. Pilots have had pressures so severe that they have hanged themselves down route, been caught smuggling, etc etc. So whilst 'you' mght be lillywhite and clean living please don't think that all pilots are like you.
) itseems fairly clear that if Johnny Terrorist realises that the only people who don't get security cleared on an a/c are crew, they will think about using this loophole to their advantage. Money wasn't a problem in getting the 9/11 operation into fruition.I feel irritated every time this topic comes up and pilots trot out the 'we are above reproach because we are pilots' speel. You are humans, though some might have trouble remembering that, and that means that there will inevitably be bad 'uns of varying degrees amongst you. Pilots have had pressures so severe that they have hanged themselves down route, been caught smuggling, etc etc. So whilst 'you' mght be lillywhite and clean living please don't think that all pilots are like you.
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Re: Security checks for crews are getting to the riduculous!
Right, I take it the screeners themselves aren't human then? 
Or wait, do they have "clearance"....So can/do many pilot's lets not forget. If we followed this principle we'd be screening each other for weapons and other sorts of dodgy goods. Show me yours and I'll show you mine (or not as may be the case). We all know terrorists wouldn't go through screening if they had something to hide. So Excessive screening is just becoming an act useful to those who wish to control (get used to it citizen!)
Or wait, do they have "clearance"....So can/do many pilot's lets not forget. If we followed this principle we'd be screening each other for weapons and other sorts of dodgy goods. Show me yours and I'll show you mine (or not as may be the case). We all know terrorists wouldn't go through screening if they had something to hide. So Excessive screening is just becoming an act useful to those who wish to control (get used to it citizen!)
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Re: Security checks for crews are getting to the riduculous!
And as for the "You could carry something past and then give it to someone to use on another aircraft" argument... Why doesn't this apply to the police who are allowed to swan on through setting off the scanner without being searched. Obviously they are always going to set off the scanner with their weapons, but they could still be hiding something else couldn't they?
Why is a policeman above suspision but the captain is not? OK, rhetorical question... The police have always been above the law. Is it right though?
Why is a policeman above suspision but the captain is not? OK, rhetorical question... The police have always been above the law. Is it right though?
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Re: Security checks for crews are getting to the riduculous!
surely not
nobody's saying that crews shouldn't go through security screening. The point is, do they really need nail scissors to fight their way to the F/D???
Frankly I find all the groping (yes, groping ) we are subjected to, especially in the US, ridiculous. I am not hiding a lethal weapon in my hair, as the lady who squidged my chignon for 10 minutes seemed to think when my hair pins set the alarm off at SFO the other day.
If I want to get into the F/D, I only need to ask.
And using your reasonment, isn't the training we are given to neutralise disruptive pax also to be considered dangerous? We could use it against pilots and...
But there's not an end to paranoia down this road.
As Nearly Nigel says, you have to decide who you can trust. And not trusting people that already have full access to all areas of the aircraft seems to me not very logical and a waste of time on both sides. You don't need nail scissors to cause damage when you already sit in the F/D.
nobody's saying that crews shouldn't go through security screening. The point is, do they really need nail scissors to fight their way to the F/D???
Frankly I find all the groping (yes, groping
) we are subjected to, especially in the US, ridiculous. I am not hiding a lethal weapon in my hair, as the lady who squidged my chignon for 10 minutes seemed to think when my hair pins set the alarm off at SFO the other day.If I want to get into the F/D, I only need to ask.
And using your reasonment, isn't the training we are given to neutralise disruptive pax also to be considered dangerous? We could use it against pilots and...
But there's not an end to paranoia down this road.
As Nearly Nigel says, you have to decide who you can trust. And not trusting people that already have full access to all areas of the aircraft seems to me not very logical and a waste of time on both sides. You don't need nail scissors to cause damage when you already sit in the F/D.
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Re: Security checks for crews are getting to the riduculous!
feel irritated every time this topic comes up and pilots trot out the 'we are above reproach because we are pilots' speel. You are humans, though some might have trouble remembering that, and that means that there will inevitably be bad 'uns of varying degrees amongst you. Pilots have had pressures so severe that they have hanged themselves down route, been caught smuggling, etc etc. So whilst 'you' mght be lillywhite and clean living please don't think that all pilots are like you.
The point is, operating (pilots) crew DO NOT NEED any weapon, they already control the aircraft!
Re: Security checks for crews are getting to the riduculous!
I just thought it was another tool being used by management to belittle and undermine us in our overly envied positions as airline pilots. I can see an office of industrial physcologists dreaming that one up.
My other crew member was detained 10 minutes recently as they went through and through his bag and found nothing and this was his second time through security that day, without leaving a sterile area. Sadly what they don't get is that the more we are harrassed in this fashion, the less we are engaged, I am not going to make up that 10 minutes by departure time but am now happily be late. If our CP does not care how his pilot body is treated then the feeling may as well be reciprocated.
The latest trick is we can not even get out of the airbridge for the walkaround at many airports and spend another 10 minutes finding some casual by the hour employee who can give us access and then another 5 minutes finding a cleaner or engineer to let us back in. I could write a flight crew report but now simply could not be bothered to put my name to anything, I might get shot at.
After a while you just stop careing but find sadly it's been part of this careing that made up the passion you once had for flying.
My other crew member was detained 10 minutes recently as they went through and through his bag and found nothing and this was his second time through security that day, without leaving a sterile area. Sadly what they don't get is that the more we are harrassed in this fashion, the less we are engaged, I am not going to make up that 10 minutes by departure time but am now happily be late. If our CP does not care how his pilot body is treated then the feeling may as well be reciprocated.
The latest trick is we can not even get out of the airbridge for the walkaround at many airports and spend another 10 minutes finding some casual by the hour employee who can give us access and then another 5 minutes finding a cleaner or engineer to let us back in. I could write a flight crew report but now simply could not be bothered to put my name to anything, I might get shot at.
After a while you just stop careing but find sadly it's been part of this careing that made up the passion you once had for flying.
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Re: Security checks for crews are getting to the riduculous!
Seems even worse for management! 
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/com...55E661,00.html
Qantas chief frisked as terrorism suspect.
John Masanauskas
11jan06
QANTAS chairman Margaret Jackson was suspected of being a terrorist and frisked during a visit to the US last year.
The airport security guard who checked her was reluctant to believe that a woman could be the head of an airline.
Mrs Jackson said yesterday her briefcase was searched after she went through a security check at Los Angeles airport.
Among her documents were detailed plans of new aircraft, including cross-section diagrams showing seat layouts.
"The guy said `Why have you got all of this?'," she told the Herald Sun.
"And I said, `I'm the chairman of an airline. I'm the chairman of Qantas'. And this black guy, who was, like, eight foot tall, said, `But you're a woman',"
Mrs Jackson revealed the incident yesterday in Beijing during a media conference to promote Qantas' new direct flights between Australia and Beijing. She raised it after a Chinese journalist complained that airport security at Australian airports was the most strict after the US.
Mrs Jackson, who was travelling with her husband, said her LA experience took about an hour.
After proving her identity, Mrs Jackson produced paper with her letterhead on it and wrote a note to the guard, whose name was Bill.
"And I wrote, `Dear Bill, this is from the chairman of Qantas, who is a woman'."
Qantas will resume flights to Beijing after pulling out of the market in the late 1990s because of low bookings.
But tourism and business links with China are booming and more than two million Chinese are expected to visit Australia annually by 2025.
Qantas is operating three flights a week between Beijing and Sydney, but this is expected to increase to daily within two years.
Direct services from Melbourne will be considered later depending on demand.
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/com...55E661,00.html
Qantas chief frisked as terrorism suspect.
John Masanauskas
11jan06
QANTAS chairman Margaret Jackson was suspected of being a terrorist and frisked during a visit to the US last year.
The airport security guard who checked her was reluctant to believe that a woman could be the head of an airline.
Mrs Jackson said yesterday her briefcase was searched after she went through a security check at Los Angeles airport.
Among her documents were detailed plans of new aircraft, including cross-section diagrams showing seat layouts.
"The guy said `Why have you got all of this?'," she told the Herald Sun.
"And I said, `I'm the chairman of an airline. I'm the chairman of Qantas'. And this black guy, who was, like, eight foot tall, said, `But you're a woman',"
Mrs Jackson revealed the incident yesterday in Beijing during a media conference to promote Qantas' new direct flights between Australia and Beijing. She raised it after a Chinese journalist complained that airport security at Australian airports was the most strict after the US.
Mrs Jackson, who was travelling with her husband, said her LA experience took about an hour.
After proving her identity, Mrs Jackson produced paper with her letterhead on it and wrote a note to the guard, whose name was Bill.
"And I wrote, `Dear Bill, this is from the chairman of Qantas, who is a woman'."
Qantas will resume flights to Beijing after pulling out of the market in the late 1990s because of low bookings.
But tourism and business links with China are booming and more than two million Chinese are expected to visit Australia annually by 2025.
Qantas is operating three flights a week between Beijing and Sydney, but this is expected to increase to daily within two years.
Direct services from Melbourne will be considered later depending on demand.
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Re: Security checks for crews are getting to the riduculous!
Team Player, the Captain of the Silkair accident many years ago allegedly hijacked his own aircraft to then disable the FO and crash it into a river. The CVR and FDR CB's were both pulled before the aircraft went into a steep dive, even though no failures were evident before this. Also, the Egyptair accident of a 767 was caused by the FO doing the same, even though no drill calls for the 767 Engine start levers to be put to cut-off simultaneously. Also, although non-operating crew (he was deadheading) the FEDEX accident of a DC-10 was due to a deranged FE who was about to be sacked. Also, I believe there was an hijacking attempt of a turbo-prop in RAM, Morrocco and a PSA 146 also by disgruntled ex-employees.
It does seem a bit silly to relieve the crew of scissors, screwdrivers when there is a heavy fire extinguisher, crash axe, oxy bottles and goodness knows what else in or near the flight deck. If you really want to hurt a pilot, take away his duty free!
It does seem a bit silly to relieve the crew of scissors, screwdrivers when there is a heavy fire extinguisher, crash axe, oxy bottles and goodness knows what else in or near the flight deck. If you really want to hurt a pilot, take away his duty free!