Engine fire, EDI
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Re: Engine fire, EDI
not heard anything about an incident at BHX.
Apparently the aircraft had no APU,so there is a different startup procedure for this.Too much fuel was pumped into engine four,which caused it to spark/ignite.The cabin crew saw the flames & proceeded to carry out an evacuation without informing the flight deck.
Cabin crew ops manual states
"Unless there is immediate danger,cabin crew should wait fifteen seconds.this period of time allows the flight crew to perform shut down checks and establish whether an evacuation is required.if no flight deck command is received after 15 seconds,the SCCM should investigate by either calling on the interphone or visiting the flight deck."
it then goes on to say
"cabin crew should not initiate an evacuation if:
-flames and sparks are produced from the engine exhaust during starting"
and this is "unless otherwise instructed by the flight deck crew or conditions require a cabin crew initiated evacuation"
Apparently the aircraft had no APU,so there is a different startup procedure for this.Too much fuel was pumped into engine four,which caused it to spark/ignite.The cabin crew saw the flames & proceeded to carry out an evacuation without informing the flight deck.
Cabin crew ops manual states
"Unless there is immediate danger,cabin crew should wait fifteen seconds.this period of time allows the flight crew to perform shut down checks and establish whether an evacuation is required.if no flight deck command is received after 15 seconds,the SCCM should investigate by either calling on the interphone or visiting the flight deck."
it then goes on to say
"cabin crew should not initiate an evacuation if:
-flames and sparks are produced from the engine exhaust during starting"
and this is "unless otherwise instructed by the flight deck crew or conditions require a cabin crew initiated evacuation"
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Re: Engine fire, EDI
loath as I am to let facts interfere with a good story, the story so far, after engine start of #4 engine which was slightly longer than normal 43 secs, the captain started #3 engine during this time the lights dimmed and flames were reported from #4 engine jetpipe or similar areas, by 1) the ground guy on the headset, this used to be an engineer but know not 2) a passenger or two. At no time did the flight crew get any warnings on the displays incl the MWS. The crew shut down the cc evacuated the aircraft down the front.
slide, as the rear slide is not being replaced guess it was not activated.
As those who like less sensational reporting the aircraft was not taxying and initial engineering reports reveal no signs of fire or leaks or any reasons for the flames or panic
But lets not get in the way of a good story, I hope the headset guy is congratulated and not criticised for I hope I would have the guts to call fire in a similar situation
slide, as the rear slide is not being replaced guess it was not activated.
As those who like less sensational reporting the aircraft was not taxying and initial engineering reports reveal no signs of fire or leaks or any reasons for the flames or panic
But lets not get in the way of a good story, I hope the headset guy is congratulated and not criticised for I hope I would have the guts to call fire in a similar situation
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Re: Engine fire, EDI
Yeah, BA RJ100 at about 07:00, had just pushed back from stand. Four or five fire trucks attended and crew said they wanted to evacuate. Just being nosey - no big deal.
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Re: Engine fire, EDI
apparently it was the no3 crew member who initiated the evacuation at the front of the aircraft,the no3 noticed the flames & informed no1 crew member but not no2 so the no2 crew member was at the rear and thought it was just a precautionary & therefore did not blow the slide
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Re: Engine fire, EDI
I happened to be on duty (work for said company) when the 'incident' kicked off and I know the Captain and one of the cabin crew involved.
The bottom line is that the aircraft was evacuated and everyone got out without injury (including a pregnant woman). The inquiry will now look into the factors leading up to, during and after the incident.
The Captain did what he was trained to do. Contain and stop the 'engine fire' as quickly as possible, secure the aircraft and make it safe for an emergency evac. He has to go with the info he has been presented with, be it visual / audio (external ground crew signals / voice transmissions), Instrument panel warnings, cabin crew advisory calls or ATC calls. All this must be decided on within nano-seconds! Lets not rush to blame the crew with replys like 'heads will roll'...
Remember that the 'incident' continued on the tarmac and in the terminal building..... Lets just say that BA was not ready for this 'Non Fatal incident'.
Oh, and by the way the aircraft was G-CFAE
The bottom line is that the aircraft was evacuated and everyone got out without injury (including a pregnant woman). The inquiry will now look into the factors leading up to, during and after the incident.
The Captain did what he was trained to do. Contain and stop the 'engine fire' as quickly as possible, secure the aircraft and make it safe for an emergency evac. He has to go with the info he has been presented with, be it visual / audio (external ground crew signals / voice transmissions), Instrument panel warnings, cabin crew advisory calls or ATC calls. All this must be decided on within nano-seconds! Lets not rush to blame the crew with replys like 'heads will roll'...
Remember that the 'incident' continued on the tarmac and in the terminal building..... Lets just say that BA was not ready for this 'Non Fatal incident'.
Oh, and by the way the aircraft was G-CFAE
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Re: Engine fire, EDI
re: EDI incident
CFAE was the aircraft involved at EDI, the number 4 engine coughed and spluttered. As usual the press have got hold of a story and 'Sexed it up'.
Looks like no fire actually took place, so you can guess that someone pushed the button to go far to soon....
CFAE was the aircraft involved at EDI, the number 4 engine coughed and spluttered. As usual the press have got hold of a story and 'Sexed it up'.
Looks like no fire actually took place, so you can guess that someone pushed the button to go far to soon....
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Re: Engine fire, EDI
tiggerific_69
As has been intimated earlier. Your contribution to this thread (whilst eagerly devoured by those who feed on 'gossip') simply causes distress to those involved, and does little to enhance the image of your employer, and in turn, yourself.
I know next to nothing about this 'incident', and neither do you, it's too soon!
Oh really??
But as you may learn (if you spend more than 5 minutes in aviation) when 'stuff' happens, it tends to 'happen' pretty quickly. We should all consider ourselves fortunate if our reactions are anything close to perfection!
If anything should ever happen to you in your aviation career, just pray it isn't the 'self aggrandised' talking heads who appear on TV, who have to dissect your actions. And hope that your instantaneous reactions, under stress, don't become the fodder for lounge lizards, twits, and journos, to nit pick ad-nauseum, after a night down the pub.
Have a good career, and don't put a foot wrong!
As has been intimated earlier. Your contribution to this thread (whilst eagerly devoured by those who feed on 'gossip') simply causes distress to those involved, and does little to enhance the image of your employer, and in turn, yourself.
I know next to nothing about this 'incident', and neither do you, it's too soon!
Too much fuel was pumped into engine four,which caused it to spark/ignite.
But as you may learn (if you spend more than 5 minutes in aviation) when 'stuff' happens, it tends to 'happen' pretty quickly. We should all consider ourselves fortunate if our reactions are anything close to perfection!
If anything should ever happen to you in your aviation career, just pray it isn't the 'self aggrandised' talking heads who appear on TV, who have to dissect your actions. And hope that your instantaneous reactions, under stress, don't become the fodder for lounge lizards, twits, and journos, to nit pick ad-nauseum, after a night down the pub.
Have a good career, and don't put a foot wrong!
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Re: Engine fire, EDI
Tandemrotor i have already had an unplanned incident in my short career involving an embraer going off the end of the runway in a certain german airport.
and as for the image of my employer at the moment..well its hardly perfect is it?
and as for the image of my employer at the moment..well its hardly perfect is it?
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Re: Engine fire, EDI
Tristar500, well said.
The rest of you losers, without being a detective, it's fairly obvious from your lack of (and conflicting) detail that you know nothing about whatever this incident really was and merely enjoy making up pathetic gossip.
Leave primary school and get a life.
The rest of you losers, without being a detective, it's fairly obvious from your lack of (and conflicting) detail that you know nothing about whatever this incident really was and merely enjoy making up pathetic gossip.
Leave primary school and get a life.
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Re: Engine fire, EDI
Originally Posted by Magplug
An evacuation does not automaticly follow an engine fire unless the fire fails to go out after the fire bottles are discharged into it. Who initiated the evacuation, the Captain... or Mr.Morton?
Magplug, Your surely kidding right ? Are you really going to sit there and wait for the flames to die down ?
Not me sunshine.
In my humble opinion and of what little I know of this incident I'd say the crew acted correctly.
The BAe 146/RJ does not have a history of fire detectors going off without a damn good reason. In fact I seem to remember someone from BAe recommending me to treat every fire warning as serious because of this.
Well done crew - oh and I if anyone's wondering I don't work for BA.
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Re: Engine fire, EDI
puddle....,
You must be the one kidding right?
I haven't posted here for years, but just have to answer your post.
As far as we know the fire detection system didn't activate, and even if it did, then it takes a finite amount of time to perform the immediate actions BEFORE initiating an evacuation; which by the way, is NOT (neccessarily) the way to go until it can be confirmed that the fire has not been contained. NOTE: we are talking about an engine fire here - not the same thing as a fire in an uncontained environment.
Passengers initiating their own evacuation in a situation such as this really stretches the bounds of 'safe-practice'.
Just hope you don't decide to 'jump' when it's my sector!
ATB,
Underdog
You must be the one kidding right?
I haven't posted here for years, but just have to answer your post.
As far as we know the fire detection system didn't activate, and even if it did, then it takes a finite amount of time to perform the immediate actions BEFORE initiating an evacuation; which by the way, is NOT (neccessarily) the way to go until it can be confirmed that the fire has not been contained. NOTE: we are talking about an engine fire here - not the same thing as a fire in an uncontained environment.
Passengers initiating their own evacuation in a situation such as this really stretches the bounds of 'safe-practice'.
Just hope you don't decide to 'jump' when it's my sector!
ATB,
Underdog
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Re: Engine fire, EDI
Originally Posted by Underdog
puddle....,
As far as we know the fire detection system didn't activate, Underdog
As far as we know the fire detection system didn't activate, Underdog
Why should the fire detection system operate?
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Re: Engine fire, EDI
We don't know what happened for sure yet.
Puddle-Jumper2, I'm afraid posts such as yours are the sort of thing that turn professional pilots away from this website in their droves. How can you say the crew acted correctly when we don't actually know how they acted yet?
You quote Magplug with more than a small amount of ridicule in your tone, yet his quote of the sequence of events following an engine fire is completely accurate.
Following the Manchester 737 incident 20 years ago (still BA's last fatal incident), BA take the issue of how to handle an engine fire on the ground very seriously and pay close attention in sim checks not only to the immediate handling of the fire itself, but especially to the "post recall items" management of the situation. Obviously, CFAE is operated under BACX SOPs at present, but I cannot imagine they are much changed from when I flew her under mainline SOPs. There are still some pilots seconded to BACX who have flown the RJ right through the 'integration' using CFE, Mainline and now BACX SOPs... They will know for sure whether anything is materially different, but I bet it isn't - every commercial transport type I have flown (from three different manufacturers) uses more or less the same procedure for dealing with an engine fire.
As an aside, some years ago I witnessed some colleagues starting an RJ at night in NCE that I'd positioned down to them (CFAA it was). The aircraft in question had a FADEC inoperative which required a different sequence of putting the fuel into the engine on startup. If you got it wrong and did the 'normal' start sequence by mistake, things got a bit hot out the back of the engine, which was exactly what happened that night! Quite an impressive display it was too, but nothing to overreact to and indeed, having caught the hot start very quickly (I guess they knew instantly what they'd done wrong - I certainly did as a spectator knowing that the FADEC was u/s on that engine), they simply started the other three then went back to the first one and started it correctly whereupon it behaved normally and off they went back to West Sussex.
All I'm saying here is that the flames out the back were very impressive, albeit for only about one or two seconds. Maybe they were just lucky that nobody unqualified spotted and overreacted to them. I was certainly half expecting a passenger to demand to get off or something like that, but all the flight crew would have seen was a hot start on their EGT gauge which they reacted to immediately before exceeding the limit. Where I'm going with this is that just because there are what appeared to me to be quite large flames out the back of an engine, it doesn't necessarily mean that all hell is going to break loose. I guess they didn't look so bad to the headset man standing at the front as they did to me standing beside it. I'd be amazed if a passenger didn't spot it though and draw it to someone's attention, but then I don't know what went on inside the aircraft - It was late and they'd had a long tech delay with the previous aircraft so maybe all the pax on the RH side were asleep! Maybe the crew made an explanatory PA in a reassuring, soothing voice explaining what had happened, who knows?
To recap then... Flames out of the back of an RJ engine is not necessarily a reason to evacuate.
Puddle-Jumper2, I'm afraid posts such as yours are the sort of thing that turn professional pilots away from this website in their droves. How can you say the crew acted correctly when we don't actually know how they acted yet?
You quote Magplug with more than a small amount of ridicule in your tone, yet his quote of the sequence of events following an engine fire is completely accurate.
Following the Manchester 737 incident 20 years ago (still BA's last fatal incident), BA take the issue of how to handle an engine fire on the ground very seriously and pay close attention in sim checks not only to the immediate handling of the fire itself, but especially to the "post recall items" management of the situation. Obviously, CFAE is operated under BACX SOPs at present, but I cannot imagine they are much changed from when I flew her under mainline SOPs. There are still some pilots seconded to BACX who have flown the RJ right through the 'integration' using CFE, Mainline and now BACX SOPs... They will know for sure whether anything is materially different, but I bet it isn't - every commercial transport type I have flown (from three different manufacturers) uses more or less the same procedure for dealing with an engine fire.
As an aside, some years ago I witnessed some colleagues starting an RJ at night in NCE that I'd positioned down to them (CFAA it was). The aircraft in question had a FADEC inoperative which required a different sequence of putting the fuel into the engine on startup. If you got it wrong and did the 'normal' start sequence by mistake, things got a bit hot out the back of the engine, which was exactly what happened that night! Quite an impressive display it was too, but nothing to overreact to and indeed, having caught the hot start very quickly (I guess they knew instantly what they'd done wrong - I certainly did as a spectator knowing that the FADEC was u/s on that engine), they simply started the other three then went back to the first one and started it correctly whereupon it behaved normally and off they went back to West Sussex.
All I'm saying here is that the flames out the back were very impressive, albeit for only about one or two seconds. Maybe they were just lucky that nobody unqualified spotted and overreacted to them. I was certainly half expecting a passenger to demand to get off or something like that, but all the flight crew would have seen was a hot start on their EGT gauge which they reacted to immediately before exceeding the limit. Where I'm going with this is that just because there are what appeared to me to be quite large flames out the back of an engine, it doesn't necessarily mean that all hell is going to break loose. I guess they didn't look so bad to the headset man standing at the front as they did to me standing beside it. I'd be amazed if a passenger didn't spot it though and draw it to someone's attention, but then I don't know what went on inside the aircraft - It was late and they'd had a long tech delay with the previous aircraft so maybe all the pax on the RH side were asleep! Maybe the crew made an explanatory PA in a reassuring, soothing voice explaining what had happened, who knows?
To recap then... Flames out of the back of an RJ engine is not necessarily a reason to evacuate.
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Re: Engine fire, EDI
[QUOTE=puddle-jumper2]
In fact I seem to remember someone from BAe recommending me to treat every fire warning as serious because of this.
/QUOTE]
So that's not normal then?!?!?!
In fact I seem to remember someone from BAe recommending me to treat every fire warning as serious because of this.
/QUOTE]
So that's not normal then?!?!?!
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Re: Engine fire, EDI
puddle-jumper2
I suggest you read carefully the posts by Underdog, Magplug, and perhaps specifically, climbnormal.
You've just shown yourself up mate. Suggest you engage rewind on the neck!
Why, since this is the PROFESSIONAL pilots website, don't we just wait a wee while, until somebody tells us THE FACTS. Then, anyone wanting to tell us how superior THEY are, may (or may not!) be able to fill their boots!!
I suggest you read carefully the posts by Underdog, Magplug, and perhaps specifically, climbnormal.
You've just shown yourself up mate. Suggest you engage rewind on the neck!
Why, since this is the PROFESSIONAL pilots website, don't we just wait a wee while, until somebody tells us THE FACTS. Then, anyone wanting to tell us how superior THEY are, may (or may not!) be able to fill their boots!!