Interception over Turkey ?

[soddim]

Far from "airliner almost shot down" it seems to be the case that this one was not even intercepted.

[threemiles]

@may force be with me

May be irrelevant to thecase, but just because of technical interest:

Assuming 121.50 was used for the blind calls from Sofia, tell us one thing please, how can you listen to radio comms from other centers (in this case Sofia) when you sit at the ground of an adjacent center (I'd assume Belgrade, Bucharest or Varna, from what you tell us).

Thanks.

[may force be with me]

Earl,
It wasn't only Turkey having problem with military. Sofia had huge one (that's what we were told, by them, that evening) as well as we (Beograd ACC).

threemiles,
As you, unduobtfully, know, most of the tran/rcv freq. antennas, for the centers, are placed on, at least one, dominant hilltop (we actually have three main sights). One that (that I know of) Sofia uses is at nearby mountain Vitosha, which is facing one of our sights (I would estimate the distance between them 80 - 100 NM). In that way, without any problem, you may listen to that kind of radio transmition.

[Ming]

My experience may be lacking being a 'low hour twerp' still looking for his first job but surely this aircraft was in no real danger. I notice the references to 'nearly being shot down' but I assume any nations forces would intercept and establish contact with the pilot on 121.5. Are there any countries where there is a 'shoot first ask questions later' mentality. I understand that in this case the aircraft was not intercepted for what ever reason so do I take it that if an aircraft acts in an unexpected way it could be shot down before an interception took place.

Ming

[threemiles]

Thanks for info

As you, unduobtfully, know, most of the tran/rcv freq. antennas, for the centers, are placed on, at least one, dominant hilltop (we actually have three main sights). One that (that I know of) Sofia uses is at nearby mountain Vitosha, which is facing one of our sights (I would estimate the distance between them 80 - 100 NM). In that way, without any problem, you may listen to that kind of radio transmition.

The ability to make operational use from listening to adjacent atcs was new to me. This is not possible where I am because there is no way to tune a receiver to another than a preselected frequency AND to put the signal into the control room.

[Lon More]

Hopefully ERRIDS (The EUROCONTROL/NATO driven “European Regional Renegade Information Distribution System”) will help in preventing such confusion in the future. Trials on 15th September with a Lear simulating loss of communication and shortly thereafter a significant deviation from the flight planned route, hence qualifying as a potential threat, and involving Maastricht UAC, the NATO Research Unit NC3A, the National German Air Policing Cell and the NATO Air Ops. Centre were a success.

Here's a partial screenshot of the info displayed:



Not very clear but includes info from FPL (inc. endurance POB) present position, altitude, heading, all updated in real time, and all available to all concerned

[Kyprianos Biris]

Lluke

The whole situation there is totally ridiculous. Airliner almost shot down, while everything could have been resolved with 1 phone call to the previous sector. Guess it would be a good excuse to exchange phone numbers.

Here's what Jeppesen have published on this :
http://www.jeppesen.com/download/briefbull/fra99-a.pdf

[Wyler]

Ming

There is no situation in which an airliner will be shot down before an interception. Any such problems ocurring over any NATO nation are dealt with in a uniform manner. The Air Policing organisation (of which I am part) has a very strict code of conduct and we practice on a regular basis. Not only do we police our own soverign airspace but we have continuous contact with our NATO allies 24/7.

Listening to certain frequencies can be difficult due to equipment and geography and so, in the UK, we liaise very closely indeed with our ATC organisations.

[tolgab]

The ability to make operational use from listening to adjacent atcs was new to me. This is not possible where I am because there is no way to tune a receiver to another than a preselected frequency AND to put the signal into the control room.

121.5 being the emergency frequency where all airlines and at least one person in every ATCC should be listening to, it is quite strange that where you work you don't have access to it. Because as I understand, may the force be with me said he heard the sofia call the aircraft on 121.5, and if their antennaes are within range and contact I don't understand your doubt in him being able to hear the transmission.

[threemiles]

@tolgab
you must have ground sites of other accs in reception range to follow ground calls. This is obviously not the case here. (you cannot hear anything that is said and transmitted in Berlin down in Copenhagen, e.g.)
what you've said is true for airborne transmissions, of course
I didnt doubt it though, but was interested in the technical background.