Ryanair's view on fatigue (merged)
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Ryanair's view on fatigue
Well they have hit a new low.
A capt who has given the ryans many years of reliable service, was asked to do extra flights after completing his rostered duty day, at the end of a long weeks flying.
He considered himself fatigued and using his professional judgement considered it unsafe to continue, so declined to do the flights.......what did ryanair do.
DEMOTED for 6 months!!!!!!
end of story.
what an airline!!!
AND THIS IS EUROPES NEW FAVORITE AIRLINE.
A capt who has given the ryans many years of reliable service, was asked to do extra flights after completing his rostered duty day, at the end of a long weeks flying.
He considered himself fatigued and using his professional judgement considered it unsafe to continue, so declined to do the flights.......what did ryanair do.
DEMOTED for 6 months!!!!!!
end of story.
what an airline!!!
AND THIS IS EUROPES NEW FAVORITE AIRLINE.
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Do the Irish have a CHIRPS scheme ?
But silly me, I forgot, the evil incarnate IALPA would merely use a CHIRPS as a nefarious vehicle to cause unnecessary trouble...
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Have you got more info
You can't predict the actions of the IAA based on what you might know of the CAA. Think more the proverbial 3 monkeys.
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Yes unfortunetly this is completely accurate information ,no ifs nor buts ,the captain in question completed his long rostered week and when asked if he would carry out two extra sectors taking him into his day off he declined on the grounds of fatigue.Very respected Captain with excellent record and nearly ten years of service!!!!!! A new low in aviation!
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Brownstar,there is more to it than that, it is but the latest example of RYR's absolute compulsive obsession to prove that THEY are in charge, whether it is right or wrong,even if it costs millions in legal fees,they have to feel in control.Simple as that;we are in charge,forget it at your peril!The IAA are interested in what RYR tells them to be interested in, I thought everyone understood that.
Last edited by captplaystation; 7th Nov 2005 at 14:40.
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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I would suggest that the pilot concerned writes to the IAA and informs them of the facts (He might also like to send a copy to the UK CHIRP). IF the law in Ireland is similar to the UK a pilot will not fly when he considers that he might be fatigued and a company will not require him to fly. In my opinion a possible breach of the Law. Any Authority worth its salt would be considering a withdrawal of the AOC.
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Sounds pretty depressing.
Question Are you fatigued after a weeks long flying or plain old tired?.
Sky 9 its very very difficult for the individual to write to the Authority now, he was purely hoping that when he shouted "fatigue" his Company would act in a safety driven way rather than the disgusting way it did.
The Authority would sit on the fence.....
Question Are you fatigued after a weeks long flying or plain old tired?.
Sky 9 its very very difficult for the individual to write to the Authority now, he was purely hoping that when he shouted "fatigue" his Company would act in a safety driven way rather than the disgusting way it did.
The Authority would sit on the fence.....
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Are RYR a JAR OPS operator ????? Do they not have an approved ops manual covering such items as "the avoidance of fatigue in aircrew" ????
To the Captain in question. Get another job mate. At a company who WILL appreciate you and your reasons for refusing to fly extra sectors !
To the Captain in question. Get another job mate. At a company who WILL appreciate you and your reasons for refusing to fly extra sectors !
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If this is true.....
So why doesn't EVERY Captain refuse to fly on the grounds that they are fatigued? Show the rest of the aviation world that you have some 'nads and stand up for yourselves. You'll have our respect and maybe some from yourselves.
LP
So why doesn't EVERY Captain refuse to fly on the grounds that they are fatigued? Show the rest of the aviation world that you have some 'nads and stand up for yourselves. You'll have our respect and maybe some from yourselves.
LP
............. err can I come an stay with you when they repo my house? No, thought not. I'll leave me nads in the fridge for now then 
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The majority of money that the IAA make comes from Ryanair.
In passing, it's one of the reasons why IAA don't do anything like as much supervision of the airlines as would be useful and helpful, they don't have the manpower or the resources to do it.
The last time they published the figures, the 2004 annual report, 79% of the income of the IAA came from overflights, and the control of them.
The same report states that 6.5% of income came from oversight and safety regulation of airlines and operations.
In the scale of things, as far as ANY of the airlines in Ireland are concerned, it's VERY small fry indeed compared to the money they get from ATC operation.
There's the root of the problem, there are very few people, and very little real experience on the ground in dealing with regulatory issues, made worse by some of the IAA being ex Air corps, with little or no real commercial operating experience.
It's not likely to change in a hurry, given the complete mess that is JAA/EASA at the moment.
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Why the surprise?
The IAA is staffed by:
Career Cvil Servants ( a la Yes Minister),
Ex Aer Lingus Management Pilots
Ex Ryanair Management Pilots
So where is there the ability or desire within to be objective?
Just get used to it - they are the downtown office of their greatest financial supporters.
The IAA is staffed by:
Career Cvil Servants ( a la Yes Minister),
Ex Aer Lingus Management Pilots
Ex Ryanair Management Pilots
So where is there the ability or desire within to be objective?
Just get used to it - they are the downtown office of their greatest financial supporters.
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Could I offer a suggestion to people finding themselves in the same position.
Either fax or preferably email the person who asks you to do the flight saying that you are likely to be fatigued as defined in the Ops Manual quoting paragraph however will do it against you better judgement if ordered to by them.
I can guarantee that you won't do the flight (or be demoted).
Either fax or preferably email the person who asks you to do the flight saying that you are likely to be fatigued as defined in the Ops Manual quoting paragraph however will do it against you better judgement if ordered to by them.
I can guarantee that you won't do the flight (or be demoted).