Fuel Dumping in Cape Town
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Short Blunt Shock
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Typical bloody tree huggers.
...if you're dumping fuel it IS an emergency, chimps! What would they rather have - fuel dumped or a whole airframe dumped? Idiots.
16B
"If it's an emergency, it's understandable to dump it inshore, but if not, it should be dumped offshore where currents would disperse it quickly," Hutchings said.
16B
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Yes, that was the bit that interested me Right Way Up.
The dumped fuel would usually be dispersed in no time in those waters at this time of year.
I think there may have been some explaining to do upon their unscheduled return.
The dumped fuel would usually be dispersed in no time in those waters at this time of year.
I think there may have been some explaining to do upon their unscheduled return.
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Chimps is a bit harsh, as is treehuggers. As I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong), the gear pin prevents gear retraction - hardly something likely to bring down a plane, which means more time, which means flying out over the water to dump fuel should have been no problem.
An of course marine biologists are going to be protective of the water - it's their job, and they understand the negative effects of dumping gallons of Jet A on it better than anyone.
An of course marine biologists are going to be protective of the water - it's their job, and they understand the negative effects of dumping gallons of Jet A on it better than anyone.
So we are going from Cape Town to Frankfurt and I would guess that this would be about a 13-hour flight. Certainly, the aircraft would be pretty heavy.
Now then, Perf A assumes that the gear is retracted as soon as we get to PRGU (Positive Rate Gear Up).
If the gear cannot be retracted because the pins have been left in and then engines start to fail then we are completely outwith Perf A and the only way left is probably down.
It is hard to believe that anyone can manage to get airborne in this day and age without physically seeing the pins, but, having got into this position, it is entirely appropriate to dump fuel immediately in order to avoid an even bigger possible disaster.
Taking tea and biscuits with the Chief Pilot is infinitely preferable to making a big hole in the ground or a huge splash the ocean.
In any event, a return for landing was inevitable for there was no way that the flight to Frankfurt was still possible. Dumping fuel would have been necessary in order to get down to landing weight.
Now then, Perf A assumes that the gear is retracted as soon as we get to PRGU (Positive Rate Gear Up).
If the gear cannot be retracted because the pins have been left in and then engines start to fail then we are completely outwith Perf A and the only way left is probably down.
It is hard to believe that anyone can manage to get airborne in this day and age without physically seeing the pins, but, having got into this position, it is entirely appropriate to dump fuel immediately in order to avoid an even bigger possible disaster.
Taking tea and biscuits with the Chief Pilot is infinitely preferable to making a big hole in the ground or a huge splash the ocean.
In any event, a return for landing was inevitable for there was no way that the flight to Frankfurt was still possible. Dumping fuel would have been necessary in order to get down to landing weight.
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To quote the report:
The pins should have been removed then and placed on a special rack on the flightdeck.
On board during the pre-flight check there is another checklist, which he showed me which says 'landing gear safety pins - check'. The co-pilot calls this out to the captain who visually checks that all the safety pins are on the rack.
When the ground crew are still in radio contact with the pilots, a third check is done and they verbally verify to the flight deck that the plane is clear and ready for take-off," Van Zyl said.
He was shown the pins, which were 45cm by 12cm with a chain and red "flag" about 120cm long.
unquote
To my untrained eye and unco-ordinated brain how can you have pins stowed in the cabin but also have the ground crew show them to crew as well as part of the normal checks. Methinks reporter didnt check his scribble very well.
Mind you I have known a more expensive problem with undercart pins. When I worked for Transamerica we had a DC-8 at ANC which needed an INS change. The Gingerbeer sent to replace the unit pushed the undercarriage lever up to get access only to have said DC-8 settle neatly down at the nose. It dropped onto a vehicle and that caused all sorts of damage. The inbound crew forgot to put the pin in, the engineer forgot to check and as a result Murphy won the days main event Aircraft was u/s for quite a few weeks to replace a wiring loom damaged.
Ron
The pins should have been removed then and placed on a special rack on the flightdeck.
On board during the pre-flight check there is another checklist, which he showed me which says 'landing gear safety pins - check'. The co-pilot calls this out to the captain who visually checks that all the safety pins are on the rack.
When the ground crew are still in radio contact with the pilots, a third check is done and they verbally verify to the flight deck that the plane is clear and ready for take-off," Van Zyl said.
He was shown the pins, which were 45cm by 12cm with a chain and red "flag" about 120cm long.
unquote
To my untrained eye and unco-ordinated brain how can you have pins stowed in the cabin but also have the ground crew show them to crew as well as part of the normal checks. Methinks reporter didnt check his scribble very well.
Mind you I have known a more expensive problem with undercart pins. When I worked for Transamerica we had a DC-8 at ANC which needed an INS change. The Gingerbeer sent to replace the unit pushed the undercarriage lever up to get access only to have said DC-8 settle neatly down at the nose. It dropped onto a vehicle and that caused all sorts of damage. The inbound crew forgot to put the pin in, the engineer forgot to check and as a result Murphy won the days main event Aircraft was u/s for quite a few weeks to replace a wiring loom damaged.
Ron
SirTopamHat:
I'm not sure whether you are asking a genuine question or taking the p*ss, however, here are my thoughts.
During my walkround, I very carefully make sure that the gear pins have been removed. I also check that all of the gear pins are physically present in the box provided on the wall just behind my left shoulder.
(You should note that the pin showed to the flight deck by the ground crew (pushback team) is a separate nose gear pin used for pushback purposes).
Now then, we taxi out and get airborne and the PNF announces "PRGU" and you ask for the gear to be raised. Not a lot happens!
By the time the realisation that either you have a serious gear problem or that the pins have been left in has sunk in and, assuming that all else is well (no engines have failed etc etc) then the aircraft would probably be going past 2,000 feet.
From 2,000 feet Jet A1 will not reach the ground. You are not going to go anywhere very far. (I have done several gear-down ferry flights and the fuel burn DOUBLES).
You are way over the top for max landing weight and you are not in good shape performance wise. Can you give me any good reason as to why you shouldn't dump apart from the loss of face which is going to come anyway?
I'm not sure whether you are asking a genuine question or taking the p*ss, however, here are my thoughts.
During my walkround, I very carefully make sure that the gear pins have been removed. I also check that all of the gear pins are physically present in the box provided on the wall just behind my left shoulder.
(You should note that the pin showed to the flight deck by the ground crew (pushback team) is a separate nose gear pin used for pushback purposes).
Now then, we taxi out and get airborne and the PNF announces "PRGU" and you ask for the gear to be raised. Not a lot happens!
By the time the realisation that either you have a serious gear problem or that the pins have been left in has sunk in and, assuming that all else is well (no engines have failed etc etc) then the aircraft would probably be going past 2,000 feet.
From 2,000 feet Jet A1 will not reach the ground. You are not going to go anywhere very far. (I have done several gear-down ferry flights and the fuel burn DOUBLES).
You are way over the top for max landing weight and you are not in good shape performance wise. Can you give me any good reason as to why you shouldn't dump apart from the loss of face which is going to come anyway?
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JW411
No, I was not taking the p1ss (though I have re-read my post and accept that it may seem like it
), or even asking a question, just 'thinking aloud' really. Reading from the start of the thread, I couldn't understand why dumping was preferable to burning. However, your post put a completely different slant on it.
Thank you.
STH
No, I was not taking the p1ss (though I have re-read my post and accept that it may seem like it
), or even asking a question, just 'thinking aloud' really. Reading from the start of the thread, I couldn't understand why dumping was preferable to burning. However, your post put a completely different slant on it. Thank you.
STH
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Everyone knows that the gear pins are only supposed to have a red flag on them. There are many different things that can be stuck in those holes by mx, such as, a bolt. Just wanted to throw that in.
