Ryanair Erc Members Resign Please!
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Stansted
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220 - it makes perfect sense.
Maybe I was coming at it from a different angle. In the respect that I have heard from around the crewroom that accepting a pay rise undermines Dublin.
But my question was only posed as it would create a dilemma. But you have answered it - in that if we voted to take our payrise then its ok regardless of the what it says to Dublin.
As you say "we would be where we voted" I agree and somehow I think we would looking at our pay rise even if it went to a vote IMHO.
Still not sure I'm explaining myself properly...does this make sense?
Maybe I was coming at it from a different angle. In the respect that I have heard from around the crewroom that accepting a pay rise undermines Dublin.
But my question was only posed as it would create a dilemma. But you have answered it - in that if we voted to take our payrise then its ok regardless of the what it says to Dublin.
As you say "we would be where we voted" I agree and somehow I think we would looking at our pay rise even if it went to a vote IMHO.
Still not sure I'm explaining myself properly...does this make sense?
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Surely the point is that you are going to get the money anyway. Why vote? Answer: voting allows Ryanair to pretend that the increase was voted in following "negotiations". In fact they will shout it as loudly as they can.
In fact, DOB has already shouted loudly to the pilots in Dublin that you are ALL - bar Dublin - going to get 3%.
The vote will not effect things in Dublin directly - but it certainly will effect OTHER pilots in the longer term. This was all explained months ago on REPA. Voting carries the risk of underming your future, not Dublin's.
In fact, DOB has already shouted loudly to the pilots in Dublin that you are ALL - bar Dublin - going to get 3%.
The vote will not effect things in Dublin directly - but it certainly will effect OTHER pilots in the longer term. This was all explained months ago on REPA. Voting carries the risk of underming your future, not Dublin's.
Join Date: Apr 2005
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I see what you're saying now 'saymachno.'
"if we voted to take our payrise then its ok regardless of the what it says to Dublin". This is not a fair interpretation on what I am saying so let me explain further....
If we were allowed to have a collective opinion and that was to support dublin then we have a self explanatory outcome.
However, as you suggest, we may very well decide to go our own road. If we do then this is the road the majority have chosen and it should be respected. I would not be voting that way but I would accept what the majority voted for with the proviso that I would then have to make a decision 'do I want to be part of a group which have different principles to me'. Life is full of hard decisions! Group decisions occur every day in government, courtrooms, company boardrooms etc etc. Sensible educated people may argue a point but they live with the group decision if it doesn't go their way.
In our case we had a group of individuals go in and negotiate what THEY thought was best for me. Not only does this break every principle of staff representation and collective bargaining, it is the height of rudeness!! I want the opportunity to say what I want to say. An ERC cannot survive based on corridor conversations and reps 'second guessing' what our opinions are. The ERC should be looking at was is being offered and come back to us, at least on paper, but preferably at a town hall type meeting chaired by the erc reps. Then WE can decide if it meets our expectations or not......having DEBATED the issues at hand.
If you open any book on staff associations or the history of collective bargaining you will see that what happened here was a disgrace.
Now to explain how the dublin guys are to take this.....It is in their interest to find out if the STN pilots are prepared to stand behind them. They now know that the company duped a few pilots into negotiating something for themselves and that the rest of the pilots MAY or MAY NOT support them. Surely it is better to know.
I for one would stand behind them totally in order to prevent the continuing erosion of conditions. It is going to be much harder to stand up to the tyrants next year when the STN pilots are getting victimised having sent the DUB guys up the proverbial creek this year!
"if we voted to take our payrise then its ok regardless of the what it says to Dublin". This is not a fair interpretation on what I am saying so let me explain further....
If we were allowed to have a collective opinion and that was to support dublin then we have a self explanatory outcome.
However, as you suggest, we may very well decide to go our own road. If we do then this is the road the majority have chosen and it should be respected. I would not be voting that way but I would accept what the majority voted for with the proviso that I would then have to make a decision 'do I want to be part of a group which have different principles to me'. Life is full of hard decisions! Group decisions occur every day in government, courtrooms, company boardrooms etc etc. Sensible educated people may argue a point but they live with the group decision if it doesn't go their way.
In our case we had a group of individuals go in and negotiate what THEY thought was best for me. Not only does this break every principle of staff representation and collective bargaining, it is the height of rudeness!! I want the opportunity to say what I want to say. An ERC cannot survive based on corridor conversations and reps 'second guessing' what our opinions are. The ERC should be looking at was is being offered and come back to us, at least on paper, but preferably at a town hall type meeting chaired by the erc reps. Then WE can decide if it meets our expectations or not......having DEBATED the issues at hand.
If you open any book on staff associations or the history of collective bargaining you will see that what happened here was a disgrace.
Now to explain how the dublin guys are to take this.....It is in their interest to find out if the STN pilots are prepared to stand behind them. They now know that the company duped a few pilots into negotiating something for themselves and that the rest of the pilots MAY or MAY NOT support them. Surely it is better to know.
I for one would stand behind them totally in order to prevent the continuing erosion of conditions. It is going to be much harder to stand up to the tyrants next year when the STN pilots are getting victimised having sent the DUB guys up the proverbial creek this year!
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Apparently the "ERC" in one base - Stansted - are being granted some time to go a local hotel to answer questions. Any chance somebody based in Stansted could ask them how they justify their position?
I have yet to hear that. It would be interesting to hear what they have to say. If anybody knows how they justify their claim to represent a large base without being elected it would be helpful to hear their argument here.
I have yet to hear that. It would be interesting to hear what they have to say. If anybody knows how they justify their claim to represent a large base without being elected it would be helpful to hear their argument here.
Join Date: Mar 2003
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The resignation issue was brought up.
The answer that came back is that there is only one member of the ERC and that is AG. MC and PM are only assisting AG and dont pretend to have any mandate to represent anyone or any thing.
They assist AG and represent themselves. However all three gave an assurance that before any further negotiation there would be a vote to elect an properly mandated ERC elected by the pilots for the pilots.
Think the message got through and I for one take them at their word. At least they are listening.
I also agree that if given a choice of IAPLA/BALPA or a properly elected pilot body I also choose the latter.
A small point but I believe only a fraction of the 300 pilots in STN turned so does that mean the rest are happy!! Are we the only ones who give a s**t?!!
The answer that came back is that there is only one member of the ERC and that is AG. MC and PM are only assisting AG and dont pretend to have any mandate to represent anyone or any thing.
They assist AG and represent themselves. However all three gave an assurance that before any further negotiation there would be a vote to elect an properly mandated ERC elected by the pilots for the pilots.
Think the message got through and I for one take them at their word. At least they are listening.
I also agree that if given a choice of IAPLA/BALPA or a properly elected pilot body I also choose the latter.
A small point but I believe only a fraction of the 300 pilots in STN turned so does that mean the rest are happy!! Are we the only ones who give a s**t?!!
