Close call in Japan
ex-Tanker
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I think the CRM standards are very similar, Mike 773.
However, there used to be some difficulty in getting CRM courses open to all cockpit categories together, which kind of defeats a lot of the object.
No matter where JAL pilots come from, they then have to satisfy the JAL CRM requirements.
However, there used to be some difficulty in getting CRM courses open to all cockpit categories together, which kind of defeats a lot of the object.
No matter where JAL pilots come from, they then have to satisfy the JAL CRM requirements.
But can CRM training overcome years of cultural training where the elders are gods, and the lower eschelons / non-japanese are to be disrespected and have no opinion?
I think not, and it looks like the recent incident has indicated as much.....
I think not, and it looks like the recent incident has indicated as much.....
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Close call in Japan
That B777 was flown by the chief pilot and the fleet manager of B777 a former JAS manager captain. Who else will do that except a manager and specially JAS, and they tried to cover it up, and now they (JAL) have been given the red card by the JCAB and the ministery of land and infrastructure for not reporting the incident to the concerened authority in time and were charged with cover up, which is really serious in this country.
I can assure you if that captain was a gaijin, he would not only been fired on the spot , but he would have been imprisoned for endagering the lives of the two a/c's occupants, and his family would have been humilated on national TV and later on deported.
Welcome to the real world of Japan, follow the rules.
I can assure you if that captain was a gaijin, he would not only been fired on the spot , but he would have been imprisoned for endagering the lives of the two a/c's occupants, and his family would have been humilated on national TV and later on deported.
Welcome to the real world of Japan, follow the rules.
Join Date: Mar 2005
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This incident is really typical for the culture in Japan. Nearly no 1st officer (or capt. flying as 1st officer) will speak up as his capt. might loose face even if this causes fatal losses. Another big problem is the hierarchic system in Japan. No matter the captain makes the last decission, in all CRM lessons in Europe I have been told to keep the hierarchic level low. Not so in Japan. A capt. is God and a 1st officer basicly nothing. CRM here is another story. They teach a lot about this but the contents are really old (around the 80`s) and it is definitely not advanced. As far as I can remember my last CRM refresher, it was boring and new contents haven`t been introduced. Another big problem is JCAB. This guys give companies and pilots such a lot of sh... every day, there is no wonder a lot of airline employees try to avoid mistakes instead of concentrating on their job. Unless you are stress resistant it won`t be an issue but until now I haven`t seen a Japanese pilot who is not afraid of JCAB. To me JCAB endangers flight safety instead of working hard for improvements. I honestly can understand them not to fill a report. Finally this incident will be silenced to death as this will fit best to everyone involved. Personally I consider aviation in Japan dangerous and each time I had to proceed dead head I didn`t feel really comfortable. My days are count here fortunately. I am gone soon and can fly in an evironment where CRM and common sense is more important than (Japanese) traditions, culture and habits.
Just found a really helpful comment of Kaptin m which would solve a lot of problems here if the Japanese only would stick to it: The KISS system (Keep It Simple, stupid!!). This is the way western cultures mainly proceed.
Unfortunately the Japanese motto is: Why keep it easy when it can be done complicated. It unfortunately can be applied to any area of daily life here.
Just found a really helpful comment of Kaptin m which would solve a lot of problems here if the Japanese only would stick to it: The KISS system (Keep It Simple, stupid!!). This is the way western cultures mainly proceed.
Unfortunately the Japanese motto is: Why keep it easy when it can be done complicated. It unfortunately can be applied to any area of daily life here.
Last edited by JA841B; 13th Mar 2005 at 08:34.
As for runway incursions, just as deadly, a USAirways crew questioned a controller's clearance on a very foggy morning in Providence, Rhode Island within the last few years.
Another aircraft was lost in the fog, nevermind the strange taxiway/runway layout, and if the very alert crew had not been concerned about the other crew's puzzled comments on the radio, a crash could have resulted, as in Tenerife. Check (SDF) Louisville's really strange layout between the terminal and runway 29/11. Even (MKE) Milwaukee has a high rate of runway incursions.
Another aircraft was lost in the fog, nevermind the strange taxiway/runway layout, and if the very alert crew had not been concerned about the other crew's puzzled comments on the radio, a crash could have resulted, as in Tenerife. Check (SDF) Louisville's really strange layout between the terminal and runway 29/11. Even (MKE) Milwaukee has a high rate of runway incursions.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Personally I think it would be a good idea to develope a rating system of airport taxiway/runway complexity, and require ground radar systems to be operating at airports that are rated to be "highly complex" when conducting cat IIIA/IIIB ops....KDTW Detroit metro is another airport with potentially confusing layouts, as is evidenced by the NWA collision in 1991
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In Bangladesh, the Captain is God. Flights are often deliberately prolonged sometimes in order to increase the number of flight hours of the pilots. A pilot revealed that the captain he worked with used to make them fly round again and again just to ratchet up his hours.
Also, the flight departed when the captain felt like it - nobody would question the captain.
- source : a pilot presently working for Biman
Also, the flight departed when the captain felt like it - nobody would question the captain.
- source : a pilot presently working for Biman
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One of life’s ironies…..
A couple of months back, landed and taxied in at a large airport in the Northeast US….night, foggy, complicated layout …..We are squinting at signs and our paper diagrams, and finally find our way to the gate.
We leave our $60M jet, walk through ops, get into the limo service to go to the hotel…..he has a GPS moving map display showing best route to get to mid-town.
Something wrong with that picture.
A couple of months back, landed and taxied in at a large airport in the Northeast US….night, foggy, complicated layout …..We are squinting at signs and our paper diagrams, and finally find our way to the gate.
We leave our $60M jet, walk through ops, get into the limo service to go to the hotel…..he has a GPS moving map display showing best route to get to mid-town.
Something wrong with that picture.
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I used to use the landing lights as an indication that takeoff clearance had been received, but some FOs would put them on anyway. So I changed to the CDU, and selected climb (or LNAV if I was P2) when clearance came through, but some FOs would even lean over and select my display when it suited them. Dunno what does work.
The company had the takeoff clearance in the checklist but cannot count how many times it was read as done when not done, and how many times the "below the line" check was not done at all.
The ICAO radio call to respond to landing and takeoff clearances is essential and if used would stop a lot of these incidents.
The company had the takeoff clearance in the checklist but cannot count how many times it was read as done when not done, and how many times the "below the line" check was not done at all.
The ICAO radio call to respond to landing and takeoff clearances is essential and if used would stop a lot of these incidents.
