Pilots sleeping on the job?
Been there, done that, just like a number of contributors to this thread.
It's true, a quick nap for 15-20 minutes, especially about half an hour before landing, is by far the best way to deal with fatigue.
Trouble is that, like a chum of mine, you tend to fall asleep again driving home - usually at O' sparrow fart on a foggy motorway.
He scraped the centre support of a motorway bridge after a long charter back into LTN.
Glad I arranged a kip on one of many particular occasions.
Rostered BFS-LCA-BFS, middle of 5 consec. days.
0800 (dark)start, 1.5 hours dep. delay, good trip out, long drag back to tech.stop AMS and pick up STBY crew. Had a kip round about Erlangen, AMS vis. 10Ks +.
Within 15 mins. of arrival (2115), it was down rapidly to Cat 3b (unforecast) with obvious 20min delay.
Oh, and BTW, you try and find your way around AMS when you can hardly see beyond the nosewheel.
Yes, glad we arranged ( separate) naps that evening.
How many times a week, for how many guys, does that happen ? Too many, these days.
Sleeve.
It's true, a quick nap for 15-20 minutes, especially about half an hour before landing, is by far the best way to deal with fatigue.
Trouble is that, like a chum of mine, you tend to fall asleep again driving home - usually at O' sparrow fart on a foggy motorway.
He scraped the centre support of a motorway bridge after a long charter back into LTN.
Glad I arranged a kip on one of many particular occasions.
Rostered BFS-LCA-BFS, middle of 5 consec. days.
0800 (dark)start, 1.5 hours dep. delay, good trip out, long drag back to tech.stop AMS and pick up STBY crew. Had a kip round about Erlangen, AMS vis. 10Ks +.
Within 15 mins. of arrival (2115), it was down rapidly to Cat 3b (unforecast) with obvious 20min delay.
Oh, and BTW, you try and find your way around AMS when you can hardly see beyond the nosewheel.
Yes, glad we arranged ( separate) naps that evening.
How many times a week, for how many guys, does that happen ? Too many, these days.
Sleeve.
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as an engineer/ppl, i sympathise with long haul pilots who are awake for 24 hour stretches. i have just come off 12hr shifts, 4 on 4 off, 2 x days 2 x nights, and for 2 out of 8 days, i was awake for 24-30 hours. our company had a sleep room, so that we could nap during breaks. it wasn't really quiet though, being attached to a 747 heavy maintennance hangar. it worked reasonably well, but often on the way home i would have to pull over for a sleep on my 80 minute commute. one day i pulled over for a nap,and woke up 4 hours later!
so yes, i am an advocate for power napping, but nothing is a subtitute for good quality sleep in your own bed.....
so yes, i am an advocate for power napping, but nothing is a subtitute for good quality sleep in your own bed.....
The Reverend
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poorwanderingwun, in another life, I have seen both left and right seat catching a nap simultanously which certainly kept me wide awake on long haul. Gave several position reports which were graciously acknowledged by the guys when they emerged from their mini sleeps.
I Have Control
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You are feeling tired, sleepy, close your eyes...
Yeh, I often think of offering the Captain 40 winks, too. After all, there's not a chance of stimulating any brain activity there!
Seriously, power naps suited Sir Winston Churchill, and he made a pretty good job of it. Sleep experts will advise that in case of acute fatigue, one or two naps, not reaching REM sleep are temporarily restorative.
The problem many of us on long-haul, charter, scheduled short-haul, night freight, air-taxi, corporate (i.e. all of us) is CHRONIC FATIGUE, which is a very different beast. Regrettably, most folk on here, myslf included, are not qualified to offer even an opinion. A good AME can advise.
Seriously, power naps suited Sir Winston Churchill, and he made a pretty good job of it. Sleep experts will advise that in case of acute fatigue, one or two naps, not reaching REM sleep are temporarily restorative.
The problem many of us on long-haul, charter, scheduled short-haul, night freight, air-taxi, corporate (i.e. all of us) is CHRONIC FATIGUE, which is a very different beast. Regrettably, most folk on here, myslf included, are not qualified to offer even an opinion. A good AME can advise.
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Winnie did indeed do an excellent job....the last I heard though was that he caught his 'power sleep' 30 feet underground not 30,000 feet overground....
It comes back to what 'Poor Wanderingwun' and 'RoyHudd' are proposing.... a realistic schedule......
What about getting management to observe a typical night freight/day passenger schedule for a couple of months before entering into negotiations over future work practises....if they can stay awake long enough at the negotiating table we might get quite a decent deal...
It comes back to what 'Poor Wanderingwun' and 'RoyHudd' are proposing.... a realistic schedule......
What about getting management to observe a typical night freight/day passenger schedule for a couple of months before entering into negotiations over future work practises....if they can stay awake long enough at the negotiating table we might get quite a decent deal...
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I don't think I've ever actually got to sleep on the flight deck (at least intentionally), but putting the seat back and taking the weight off the neck for as little as ten minutes can have quite a positive effect.
Milt, (back on page 1, with the F86 'war-ie'), your surname wouldn't be the same as a well-known brand of Aussie jam, would it?
Milt, (back on page 1, with the F86 'war-ie'), your surname wouldn't be the same as a well-known brand of Aussie jam, would it?
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Wiley
OK so you cracked the code. But it was in an F51 -- F86s some time later and much later F111s. Drop me a PM.
Then a cousin with same name used to own Ye Old Bowral Airfield from which he flew his Baron Von Ritchoffen Triplane replica in mock combat with a Bristol Fighter. No way could you feel sleep deprived in those machines.
Sometime slung a hammock in Gooneys on a long haul to keep the yawns away. Kept us fresh for terminal activities.
OK so you cracked the code. But it was in an F51 -- F86s some time later and much later F111s. Drop me a PM.
Then a cousin with same name used to own Ye Old Bowral Airfield from which he flew his Baron Von Ritchoffen Triplane replica in mock combat with a Bristol Fighter. No way could you feel sleep deprived in those machines.
Sometime slung a hammock in Gooneys on a long haul to keep the yawns away. Kept us fresh for terminal activities.
Just a numbered other
read in the same article that short haul pilots are only allowed to fly 3 sectors without a break.
I wonder if the rest of the piece benefitted from such excellent research?
I wonder if the rest of the piece benefitted from such excellent research?
I am just about to start flying full time after having flown part time and also doing care work. Night duties with the care work (where one sits outside someones door 'specialing' (ie, making sure they don't hurt themselves etc) it gets tough to stay awake, especially at 4am. I would cat nap, trying to ensure I didn't go enough to not wake up if anything happened. Often though, driving home safely would be and feel as if I had been drinking. Problem is though, what do you do? If one has already been sitting in a chair half the night, one only wants to get home to bed and anything else isn't going to help much anyway. The only night flying I've done has been 'hours building' when I would fly somewhere late afternoon, have a coffee and something to eat and fly back at night, arriving back at around midnight. A totally different thing from opeating a commercial flight with changable rostas all through the night to land at 6am in bad weather, I think! Cat napping in turns seems to be the only sensible option. Im not going to comment on FTLs and rostas as it doesn't apply to flying I do.
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What bothers me is when you look accross at your colleague to find out that they're catchin some zzzz without having the courtesy to tell you first!
Also someone suggested to me that drinking a cup of coffee before the 25 min nap works wonders as the caffeine takes 30 mins to kick in. Haven't road tested the theory though!
Also someone suggested to me that drinking a cup of coffee before the 25 min nap works wonders as the caffeine takes 30 mins to kick in. Haven't road tested the theory though!
