KAL Cargo Plane Topples Back At Sydney Airport
Trash du Blanc
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We don't have provisions for tail stands. What works best is a heavy pallet in the 1R position. Or load the lower forward compartment first.
To Allianceair- the MD-11 has a much smaller tail than the DC-10. It compensates by a fulltime LSAS. Pitch is actually much more stable than the -10. A rough ride on your flight probably indicates just a ham-handed pilot. It is my observation that piloting skill is de-emphasized on full-FMS aircraft.
I had an instructor tell me last summer that it's best just to autoland every leg. When I had recovered sufficiently, I asked him what to do when crosswind exceeds autoland limit (15 knots) but is less than aircraft demonstrated limit (35 knots). Is that really the time to be learning how to hand-fly the airplane?
I can come up with no reason not to maintain and improve your hand-flying abilities, save laziness....
To Allianceair- the MD-11 has a much smaller tail than the DC-10. It compensates by a fulltime LSAS. Pitch is actually much more stable than the -10. A rough ride on your flight probably indicates just a ham-handed pilot. It is my observation that piloting skill is de-emphasized on full-FMS aircraft.
I had an instructor tell me last summer that it's best just to autoland every leg. When I had recovered sufficiently, I asked him what to do when crosswind exceeds autoland limit (15 knots) but is less than aircraft demonstrated limit (35 knots). Is that really the time to be learning how to hand-fly the airplane?
I can come up with no reason not to maintain and improve your hand-flying abilities, save laziness....
Still Trampin' the Ramp
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freightdoggydog, you beat me to it! Seem to remember a similar photo of a Fedex DC10 in the same attitude on the ramp at LAX. Rumour has it that the piccy circulated with the caption 'Captain drops wallet out of cockpit window'. Alternatively you could use the old Uncle Roger stalwart of 'A bit late on the roundout Hoskins'
No applications accepted from ex KAL Loadmasters!
No applications accepted from ex KAL Loadmasters!
Join Date: Oct 2001
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Cargo handled by Quanta Airlines.
Now these days, Korean Airline cannot even
rely on Western Air Carrier to handle the Cargo..
Load master of Quanta forgot to use tail stand..
Sorry to disappoint all the guys who were blaming on Korean Airline...
Now these days, Korean Airline cannot even
rely on Western Air Carrier to handle the Cargo..
Load master of Quanta forgot to use tail stand..
Sorry to disappoint all the guys who were blaming on Korean Airline...
Join Date: Apr 2001
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"HELLO THERE"
QANTAS were handling the loading/unloading under direction from the KAL Loadmaster. MD11 do not use a tail stand, they utilise weights on the nose gear or tether the nose gear to the earth. It is my understanding that KAL standard operating procedure is to not utilise these weights and elect to orchestrate the loading and unloading whilst keeping the COG forward thus preventing the rather large erection that resulted in our fair city. Check the ASTB site in 12 months for who was to blame.
QANTAS were handling the loading/unloading under direction from the KAL Loadmaster. MD11 do not use a tail stand, they utilise weights on the nose gear or tether the nose gear to the earth. It is my understanding that KAL standard operating procedure is to not utilise these weights and elect to orchestrate the loading and unloading whilst keeping the COG forward thus preventing the rather large erection that resulted in our fair city. Check the ASTB site in 12 months for who was to blame.
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"Load master of Quanta forgot to use tail stand.."
Do MD11's use tail stands at all? I was told that KAL doesn't even use weights on the nose like some of the other MD11 airlines which come to Sydney. They rely on loading/unloading the front and back of the aircraft in a certain sequence. Before you start pointing fingers at "Quanta" (whoever they may be) and believing everything you read in the newspapers, let's find out who was supervising the unloading... KAL or the local groundstaff....shall we?).
Newpapers reported that the angle of the aircraft was 30 degrees (I'd say more like 10). Perhaps the pilots here can provide a more accurate value?
Q.
Do MD11's use tail stands at all? I was told that KAL doesn't even use weights on the nose like some of the other MD11 airlines which come to Sydney. They rely on loading/unloading the front and back of the aircraft in a certain sequence. Before you start pointing fingers at "Quanta" (whoever they may be) and believing everything you read in the newspapers, let's find out who was supervising the unloading... KAL or the local groundstaff....shall we?).
Newpapers reported that the angle of the aircraft was 30 degrees (I'd say more like 10). Perhaps the pilots here can provide a more accurate value?
Q.
Top Dog
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Just a comment from a 74F L/M;
We generally don't use tail-stands either. We've had a couple of incidents over the years where they've slipped off the attachment point, puncturing the APU area. Not only that, but unless a tailstand is constantly monitored/adjusted, you can put too much stress on the aft body area. And last, but not least, any Loadmaster worth his salt shouldn't require one (ok so there are special situations, but in general...)
My tuppence worth.
We generally don't use tail-stands either. We've had a couple of incidents over the years where they've slipped off the attachment point, puncturing the APU area. Not only that, but unless a tailstand is constantly monitored/adjusted, you can put too much stress on the aft body area. And last, but not least, any Loadmaster worth his salt shouldn't require one (ok so there are special situations, but in general...)
My tuppence worth.
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Here's a few more pics....
<a href="http://www.ozemail.com.au/~iriddell/KAL/Dscf0162.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.ozemail.com.au/~iriddell/KAL/Dscf0162.jpg</a>
<a href="http://www.ozemail.com.au/~iriddell/KAL/Dscf0167.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.ozemail.com.au/~iriddell/KAL/Dscf0167.jpg</a>
<a href="http://www.ozemail.com.au/~iriddell/KAL/Dscf0168.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.ozemail.com.au/~iriddell/KAL/Dscf0168.jpg</a>
<a href="http://www.ozemail.com.au/~iriddell/KAL/Dscf0171.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.ozemail.com.au/~iriddell/KAL/Dscf0171.jpg</a>
The aircraft nose was initially pulled down with tugs and cables.... However, due to cable angles, it wasn't possible to pull it down all the way. The nose only touched down after about 10 people boarded the aircraft at the front right hand door (via a scissor stand).... and slowly moved towards the cockpit.
By the way, the aircraft didn't "crash" onto its tail as reported. The aircraft settled on its bum quite softly.... Perhaps because of the cushioning effect of the downward vectored APU exhaust?
Rgds.
Q.
[ 11 January 2002: Message edited by: QAVION ]</p>
<a href="http://www.ozemail.com.au/~iriddell/KAL/Dscf0162.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.ozemail.com.au/~iriddell/KAL/Dscf0162.jpg</a>
<a href="http://www.ozemail.com.au/~iriddell/KAL/Dscf0167.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.ozemail.com.au/~iriddell/KAL/Dscf0167.jpg</a>
<a href="http://www.ozemail.com.au/~iriddell/KAL/Dscf0168.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.ozemail.com.au/~iriddell/KAL/Dscf0168.jpg</a>
<a href="http://www.ozemail.com.au/~iriddell/KAL/Dscf0171.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.ozemail.com.au/~iriddell/KAL/Dscf0171.jpg</a>
The aircraft nose was initially pulled down with tugs and cables.... However, due to cable angles, it wasn't possible to pull it down all the way. The nose only touched down after about 10 people boarded the aircraft at the front right hand door (via a scissor stand).... and slowly moved towards the cockpit.
By the way, the aircraft didn't "crash" onto its tail as reported. The aircraft settled on its bum quite softly.... Perhaps because of the cushioning effect of the downward vectored APU exhaust?
Rgds.
Q.
[ 11 January 2002: Message edited by: QAVION ]</p>
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Have to agree with Cargorat2......" a loadmaster worth his salt doesn't need a tail strut ". Saw one go thro a Convair in Coventry many years ago.
All the Fedx MD11s in Stansted use weights over the nose leg.This is then attached to shackles concreted into the ramp.So who was in charge of the loading team?
All the Fedx MD11s in Stansted use weights over the nose leg.This is then attached to shackles concreted into the ramp.So who was in charge of the loading team?
Check out the downwards angle of the top platform on the rear JCPL. What's it done to the rear cargo door and/or its frame?
I suspect that handling contracts are now being held up to the light.
I suspect that handling contracts are now being held up to the light.
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Firstly, the aircraft was being unloaded by Qantas cargo staff under the direction of the local KAL loadmaster.
Secondly, the tail did not crash to the ground, but quite gently settled in that unfortunate position.
Lastly, damage to the aircraft is not anywhere near as bad as one might think. There is one 4inch dia hole in the fuse just aft of the aft cargo door, some minor damage to the aft cargo door cutout, and some dents fwd of the bulk cargo door.
The main damage appears to be to the pride of KAL. I hear that 3 of their local cargo staff have been stood down. The QF cargo guys were taken away for some counselling.
Oh yeh! The Hyundai 4wd that fell out of the main deck door is going cheap!!!!
Secondly, the tail did not crash to the ground, but quite gently settled in that unfortunate position.
Lastly, damage to the aircraft is not anywhere near as bad as one might think. There is one 4inch dia hole in the fuse just aft of the aft cargo door, some minor damage to the aft cargo door cutout, and some dents fwd of the bulk cargo door.
The main damage appears to be to the pride of KAL. I hear that 3 of their local cargo staff have been stood down. The QF cargo guys were taken away for some counselling.
Oh yeh! The Hyundai 4wd that fell out of the main deck door is going cheap!!!!